Then why are the singles championships seeded with the two highest players playing each other, and so on down the line?But with everyone except the very best and the very worst, the 9-Ball handicap in APA really does level the playing field. .
Please Fix POOL LEAGUE RULES ... Here Are Some Suggestions
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
VTEC John
Active member
Call shot eliminates slop.
Call shot is IMO unnecessary and does eliminate certain skilled shots where you have the ability to pocket either one ball or the other, for instance. Not to mention for certain kicks, where you could be penalized for pocketing a ball (10 ball). Rules should be simple and intuitive. Whenver you institute complicating factors into the rules, there should be very good reasons indeed.
10 ball is played without call shot in the Phillipines and it's still a distinct game. The break is different and the extra ball does change the game a bit.
I advocate for ball in hand anywhere on the table on all fouls in 8 ball, except the illegal break (4 balls did not hit a cushion, in which case I believe the opponent should get the break or the option to have his opponent rebreak). I made a post earlier with my proposed simplifications.
I have played on more than one league the same week on occasion.
Once i played apa...napa...and a money league using bcapl rules and scoring system.
Another time i played apa...usapl and tap the same week.
I never had a problem adjusting from one set of rules to another each night i played and actually enjoyed the change from one to another.
There are rules that i prefer over others but never thought any needed fixing. Well let me take that thought back. I hate slop in 9 ball so lets fix that rule .
Once i played apa...napa...and a money league using bcapl rules and scoring system.
Another time i played apa...usapl and tap the same week.
I never had a problem adjusting from one set of rules to another each night i played and actually enjoyed the change from one to another.
There are rules that i prefer over others but never thought any needed fixing. Well let me take that thought back. I hate slop in 9 ball so lets fix that rule .
I had the EXACT thing happen to me in an 8-ball match. hill-hill, came down to a safety battle which my opp lost. Through out the match my opp would call me "sir", and compliment me on a nice shot. I returned the compliments so it seemed like a gentleman's game.I could probably do a multi-part video for the APA!
Thanks.
After my opp lost the safety battle, he walked away disgusted with his last shot. Being a gentleman, I took BIH, pointed to the side pocket briefly (didn't mark it) and dropped it in the side just like you did in the video. My opp goes outside, chats to a team-mate and enters in less than 30 seconds. He tells me I didn't "mark the pocket" so I lost. EVERYONE knew exactly where the 8-ball was going. Thing is: my new captain on this new team disagreed with me. I rarely if ever lose my temper, but this guy scumbagged me! I told him if he needed the win that bad ,he could have it.
The next week, I got kicked off of the team; I guess they thought I was going to be a troublemaker. Was no big loss as I was going to cherry-pick the teams I wanted to play hoping to get the better players. It was a bangers league.
soyale
Well-known member
that makes more sense then, as to why you feel a jumped ball on the break should result in bih.
they might play 9ball+1 in the Philippines, but as far as the break being “different”, with a template some would say the 10ball break is even easier; the second row tracks to the sides and the corner balls both go 3 rails, not to mention breaking near dead on makes it significantly easier to park the cue ball and avoid a scratch. of course all this is common knowledge im just bringing up points as to why i feel 10 ball is redundant as hell if not call shot.
You claim that call shot takes away certain skilled shots where you might… get lucky? and make one ball or the other, or maybe both? i must disagree with you. if you are playing a shot and hoping that one ball or the other goes in, maybe 9ball is more your game. In 8 ball you have to at least know which ball is going into which pocket to continue your inning, scoring an additional ball does not penalize you in any way…. but what im taking away from you is in that very specific instance it should be acceptable for the shooter to, say, rattle the ball that would normally be “called”, yet pocket the second OB, and be able to keep shooting? is that correct? If not i might need you to clarify.
i dont really see much harm in your proposition of eliminating the ball in kitchen after a foul on the break in 8ball, but i dont really see the necessity of it either. Bih on the break is a stifffff punishment, which, again, makes sense for 9ball.
Ball in kitchen is quite obviously a carryover rule from the old days of straight pool and slow rugs when most of the rack stayed downtable. ball in kitchen also is still implemented heavily with the spot shot in rotation pool, and makes a good deal of sense in that game, but with 8ball nowadays it can certainly be annoying when you get ball-in-kitchen and can’t shoot at the easiest pattern for the runout (which for many would be eliminating the top half of the table first and working your way down toward the 8). This is why i mentioned that i dont see the necessity for it…. scratching on the break can and does happen all the time even when the shooter did nothing wrong, and i dont see any reason to enforce stiffer punishments for that when ball in kitchen with an open table is still a death sentence up against a competent opponent.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
I wouldn't mind ball in kitchen if the opponent has to spot a ball after a foul. After the break, ball in kitchen can create a a significant advantage for the fouling player, if a ball is spotted that reduces the advantage. I believe most of the games that require ball in kitchen also allow spotting a ball if all the balls are behind the head string, but if the opponent spots his ball, there are now 2 balls on the spot, again protecting the fouling player.
It amazes me how many people think ball in hand is "chickenshit", It's hard for me to think of anything more chickenshit than fouling and gaining advantage, a situation that happens regularly with ball in kitchen. It's surprising how many people never even thought about the flaws in bar 8 ball rules.
You should have gotten a ruling from the tournament director. Fouls or losses need to be called immediately. Not 30 seconds later. And I'm betting it was more then 30 seconds.
soyale
Well-known member
im not referring to bar 8ball, or ball in kitchen for all fouls.
We were discussing the current rule for 8ball where if you foul on the break your opponent gets ball in kitchen.
3.3 Break Shot
The following rules apply to the break shot:
(a) The cue ball begins in hand behind the head string.
(b) No ball is called, and the cue ball is not required to hit any particular object ball first.
(c) If the breaker pockets a ball and does not foul, he continues at the table, and the table
remains open. (See 3.4 Open Table / Choosing Groups.)
(d) If no object ball is pocketed, at least four object balls must be driven to one or more rails,
or the shot results in an illegal break, and the incoming player has the option of
(1) accepting the table in position, or
(2) re-racking and breaking, or
(3) re-racking and allowing the offending player to break again.
(e) Pocketing the eight ball on a legal break shot is not a foul. If the eight ball is pocketed, the
breaker has the option of
(1) re-spotting the eight ball and accepting the balls in position, or
(2) re-breaking.
(f) If the breaker pockets the eight ball and scratches (see definition 8.6 Scratch), the opponent
has the option of:
(1) re-spotting the eight ball and shooting with cue ball in hand behind the head string;
or
(2) re-breaking.
(g) If any object ball is driven off the table on a break shot, it is a foul; such balls remain out
of play (except the eight ball which is re-spotted); and the incoming player has the option of
(1) accepting the table in position, or
(2) taking cue ball in hand behind the head string.
(h) If the breaker fouls in any manner not listed above, the following player has the option of
(1) accepting the balls in position, or
(2) taking cue ball in hand behind the head string.
League operators can pretty much put people at any rating they want. Seems arbitrary to me.
The lower your numbers, the better chance you have to win. You can also ruin your team if players advance too far. Ideally, there should be more incentive for people to improve and move up, not stay as low as possible.
9 ball is only as sloppy as the people playing it.
That's why many league Operators have handicap advisory committees. Committees made from the better players in the league who are kept anonymous. Of course it's the league operators final decision, but usually he will enforce what the committee decides.
That's not really how it works. LO's can override the computer's calculated handicap if they feel it's too LOW, but not if they feel it's too HIGH. That's to prevent untrustworthy LO's from 'helping' teams sandbag. Yes, some LOs have been known to be untrustworthy. Happens in every league format. Over the years, many different "incentives to win" have been introduced, like MVP programs, multi-point scoring, and even the Singles program. But if someone is determined to play dishonestly, they can usually get away with it for a while. How long depends on (1) how diligent the LO is in using all the tools they've been given and (2) how diligent the rest of the league is in scoring properly and reporting abnormalities to the LO. No matter what you do or how good your tools get, though, there will always be someone who gets off on cheating, and all you can do is root those people out and refuse to do business with them. If you're not strong enough to do that you shouldn't be running a league in any format.
Well this thing you call cheating is what people do.
Under Old Arizona Rating System person would get low rating, clean up at few Tournments.
Then disappear from community.
Sure this happens all over.
Still don't know what you mean by arbitrary. Inferior compared to what?
Arbitrary because they are largely made up by the LOs, and are very subjective to the small area the league happens to be in.
A 5 in one area might be a 3 or a 7 in another part of the country.
There's a system out there now called Fargorate that tracks and compares every single person in the system, world wide. Eventually almost everyone will be connected, and the ratings become very accurate over time. (starter ratings can be a bit arbitrary, but they correct themselves)
rules and ratings are all someones opinions in the end, i think this should be a rule. i think this person plays this good.
people will always find something they dont like about it.
people will always find something they dont like about it.
In the bca score app, when you add a player to a team, it asks you they're Fargo, and you can literally change it in the spot to whatever you want as you add them to the team
Only League operator can do that . It must be done through the league management system , or LMS. And only the league operator should have access to that
If someone adds a new player, they have to let me know. Then I enter their name and handicap into the system. Also there is a search function that allows you to search to see if they have a previous Fargo rate.
Not only that, I cannot lower a person's handicap. Only the national office can do that. All I can adjust is their starter rating, which is done periodically until they have 200 games played ( robustness) After 200 games any adjustment I make will do nothing.
I can raise a handicap though. I had a team tell me a new player used to be an APA 4. So I started him somewhere around 350 or 400. At a later date I had another player tell me he was actually an APA 6. Since I'm good friends with the local apa operator, I gave him a call. He confirmed he was at 6. The very next week he was a 565! He was pretty pissed off about it, but I sorry about his luck. HIs Captain shouldn't have lied to me. And not only that the player never said a word about it either.
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SomeDeadGuy
Member
I personally like “cue ball fouls only” as a way to reduce sharking. I've seen several occasions where a loser claim his opponent's shirt touched a ball just to create drama and throw the shooter off his game. A better rule would be ”cue stick fouls only” Where any illegal touching with a cue stick is called a foul.