He asked for help,I tried but.........................

[measureman]

There is a guy I play one pocket with who plays prettyt good but knows next to nothing about 14.1.
He asked if we could play and would I help him.
Every time I suggested a different pattern then he just played I got push back.
One time the rack was open a bit and he had a perfectly good shot in the side with a natural angle to break the balls open and he passed on it.
Instead he tried shooting in 3 more balls to get position on a different break shot and failed ending the run.
After enough push back I stopped suggesting moves.
At the end I told him he passed up too many break shots,
I said never pass up a break shot to open the balls you may not get another one.
OK I know sometimes opening the balls too soon creates more problems but at his level of play passing up on a chance to open the balls is not a good idea.
We are talking about a player that has a lifetime high run of 25.
Just my opinion.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

hey my life time is 28

 

[DynoDan]

Exception: I learned the hard way. Never break a sizable pack without an insurance ball, unless a ‘last resort’. My luck: Usually, result is: sewed up against an impossible shot.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

People even pay good money for Pool lessons, but return to old bad habits.

So I assume they just want lessons, but make no effort to change bad habits.

DUMB.

 

[measureman]

People even pay good money for Pool lessons, but return to old bad habits.

So I assume they just want lessons, but make no effort to change bad habits.

DUMB.

I'm doing it for free and I play pretty good 14.1 with a few runs over a 100 and more 50's-60's then I can remember.
Of course I've had my fair share of 8's and 10's but that's the nature of 14.1.

 

[Straightpool_99]

Exception: I learned the hard way. Never break a sizable pack without an insurance ball, unless a ‘last resort’. My luck: Usually, result is: sewed up against an impossible shot.

I agree. However for those who struggle getting through a rack, getting the balls open may be worth taking a risk, since they may be less capable of Playing position on just one or two balls. A more orthodox approach is better suited to a skilled player than to someone of this caliber. It is also vital that they learn the speed and spin that opens the balls best. Learning the hard way is IMO the only way.

 

[Chip Roberson]

Playing golf I've had the very same thing happen though in a different game. I'm known as a good putter and read the greens I'm accustomed too very well. A friend started a round with me and asked me to help read his putts for him. We weren't play for the dough so I tried to help. On each and every attempt to help , he replied that the break I was reading wasn't there. Every time he putted he found out he was wrong. Some just have to learn on their own.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I agree. However for those who struggle getting through a rack, getting the balls open may be worth taking a risk, since they may be less capable of Playing position on just one or two balls. A more orthodox approach is better suited to a skilled player than to someone of this caliber. It is also vital that they learn the speed and spin that opens the balls best. Learning the hard way is IMO the only way.

The tricky part is determining at what point in your development you need to start waiting for better break out opportunities. Even when you do have better shotmaking and control, taking a risk is still appetizing. Especially when you are approaching a high run.

 

[measureman]

So I played 14.1 with this guy again and he says "Let's just play and not talk about shots'
So I took that to mean he didn't want anymore tips,I had to bite my tongue a few times when he chose the harder end pattern and screwed it up.
Damn, dont people see the easy path on the last 4 or 5 balls?

 

[alphadog]

So I played 14.1 with this guy again and he says "Let's just play and not talk about shots'
So I took that to mean he didn't want anymore tips,I had to bite my tongue a few times when he chose the harder end pattern and screwed it up.
Damn, dont people see the easy path on the last 4 or 5 balls?

No they shoot the break ball ,or key ball first.

 

[ctyhntr]

Sounds like the typical person who doesn't value taking advice or lessons.

My poolhall is offering free clinics for league members with Thorsten. This Friday he's going to cover 14.1, next week is 8-ball, and final week is 9-ball. 'll be there tomorrow and think it should be a full house, but wouldn't be suprised some with your friend's mentality will pass up the opportunity.

 

[soyale]

So I played 14.1 with this guy again and he says "Let's just play and not talk about shots'
So I took that to mean he didn't want anymore tips,I had to bite my tongue a few times when he chose the harder end pattern and screwed it up.
Damn, dont people see the easy path on the last 4 or 5 balls?

are you sure hes choosing wrong, and not just getting out of line maybe shooting a backup plan?

this happens to me constantly in my practice. just because i see it doesn’t mean i can do it.

im sure you know what your talking about based on your experience but just thought i’d offer up a possible explanation.

It’s a shame he doesnt want to learn, i would be eating that sort of advice up, personally. Not everyone shoots pool to improve, though. For some guys its just a way to get out of the house and shut your brain off and relax, so being “forced” to pay attention and learn things would certainly wind up as a deterrent. I say keep biting your tongue until he asks for help.

 

[measureman]

are you sure hes choosing wrong, and not just getting out of line maybe shooting a backup plan?

this happens to me constantly in my practice. just because i see it doesn’t mean i can do it.

im sure you know what your talking about based on your experience but just thought i’d offer up a possible explanation.

It’s a shame he doesnt want to learn, i would be eating that sort of advice up, personally. Not everyone shoots pool to improve, though. For some guys its just a way to get out of the house and shut your brain off and relax, so being “forced” to pay attention and learn things would certainly wind up as a deterrent. I say keep biting your tongue until he asks for help.

I get the getting out of line and changing the plan,but when there's 3 or 4 balls left and he starts out with the wrong ball that's a different story.
He watches 14.1 instructional videos and that helps but they don't cover all the real world situations.

 

[soyale]

I get the getting out of line and changing the plan,but when there's 3 or 4 balls left and he starts out with the wrong ball that's a different story.
He watches 14.1 instructional videos and that helps but they don't cover all the real world situations.

gotcha that is a different thing altogether

 

[Zerksies]

Some people are just not teachable

 

[Wolven]

So I played 14.1 with this guy again and he says "Let's just play and not talk about shots'
So I took that to mean he didn't want anymore tips,I had to bite my tongue a few times when he chose the harder end pattern and screwed it up.
Damn, dont people see the easy path on the last 4 or 5 balls?

Nothing wrong with not wanting to learn. In this case, if you study and ask for help that's a little strange.
I guess he doesn't think much of your help anymore, perhaps he thinks you are out to lunch.

 

[measureman]

Nothing wrong with not wanting to learn. In this case, if you study and ask for help that's a little strange.
I guess he doesn't think much of your help anymore, perhaps he thinks you are out to lunch.

He sits in the chair while I run racks,He has time to eat lunch.

 

[Pin]

I guess he doesn't think much of your help anymore, perhaps he thinks you are out to lunch.

That's not how I read it. I think in principle he wants the help, and he thinks Measureman has the knowledge he needs.

But in practice there's a kind of cognitive pain (in a very mild form!) in doing things you don't understand or anticipate will go badly. I think it gets worse as we get older - you get used to feeling competent in the things you do. On the other hand, if you can accept and push past the discomfort, learning something can feel very rewarding.

I don't know how you help a person get past that barrier though.

 

[measureman]

I used to play play fun 9 ball with a guy.
Sometimes he would just stare at the shot and I would say are you struck on how to get position?
He would say no and then screw it all up even though I saw the way to shoot it.
I stopped asking after awhile,I just don't understand that.
I played at strong short stop speed in my prime,I don't play that good these days(I'm old) but I still have the knowledge.
I played a lot of pool with much better players and sometimes I would ask them questions about position play and shot selection and I would just soak it up.
I never let ego get in the way of learning and I've been that way since I first picked up a cue in 1961

 

[michael4]

Some people are just not teachable

also I would say some people dont want to be taught by certain people.........

on this point, my ex would never take any advice I ever gave her, even when I knew I had the correct advice.....but she would gladly take advice from the homeless guy under the bridge. i.e. your friend sees you as a "friend", or as an "equal", and doesnt want to be taught by you (but dont be shocked or offended if he listens to someone else, even someone else with less pool knowledge)

thats just how the world works....dont sweat the small stuff