I think it has a lot to do with your evaluation of your opponents abilities and how they go about playing pool. There's a lot of people I would use this tactic on and a lot that I wouldn't as I know it would backfire on me!!
Foul..........Poor Form..........Genius Move?
- Thread starter Newsheriffintwn
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This is super common in my opinion.
One thing I do with my students is to set up two strips, two solids, and the 8 ball, all locked up in various ways (maybe a stripe and solid tied up on a rail, a stripe near a corner blocked by a hanging 8, the other solid frozen on the head rail up table).
After I set these up I tell my student they can pick stripes or solids and shoot first. I battle out end games with them. Sometimes we’ll discuss options. Generally we can do 5 in an hour.
It’s amazing at how often the illegal pocketing of your opponents ball is the winning shot, after which everything goes downhill for them. I can post some examples later if I’m by my computer, mobile right now. But it’s true that unless you can run out the player with more balls typically has the advantage in the end game.
So to the original question, it is a foul but it is totally acceptable and often correct.
One thing I do with my students is to set up two strips, two solids, and the 8 ball, all locked up in various ways (maybe a stripe and solid tied up on a rail, a stripe near a corner blocked by a hanging 8, the other solid frozen on the head rail up table).
After I set these up I tell my student they can pick stripes or solids and shoot first. I battle out end games with them. Sometimes we’ll discuss options. Generally we can do 5 in an hour.
It’s amazing at how often the illegal pocketing of your opponents ball is the winning shot, after which everything goes downhill for them. I can post some examples later if I’m by my computer, mobile right now. But it’s true that unless you can run out the player with more balls typically has the advantage in the end game.
So to the original question, it is a foul but it is totally acceptable and often correct.
Are you referring to shooting opponent’s balls in as with the cue ball or are you saying he’s shooting them in with his cue tip directly on the object balls, bypassing the cue ball?
The latter would be unsportsmanlike, 1 warning, and then automatic loss of game for the second and every subsequent infraction after that in the same session. The former is a legal strategic move, BIH for the opponent.
I’m sure you probably play better 8 ball than me but if we have a cluster of balls together and you give bih I’m going to be looking at shooting my ball into the open and freezing the cue ball to one of your balls. A cue ball frozen to another cuts down a lot of the options maybe not always but it’s a position I don’t want to be in most of the time
In BCA, purposely shooting at an opponent's ball is a sportsmanship violation.
Part of the chess game. I shot a guy 30 years ago in a tournament that everyone bragged how good he was and that no one can beat him I Drew him first round in an APA rules the, first game he shot a shot of the 8 ball that left the eight ball against my object ball. He then shot a ball and missed it sat in pocket. I ran my balls leaving only one tied to eight. And shot his duck in. He yelled that he had low balls. I said my bad. Ball in hand. He missed the next shot leaving ball in pocket and I shot it in. He yelled again. My bad ball in hand. He did it again and I did it again. Now he was on the eight ball tried to play it safe and left it where I can go ahead and cross cut the object bar I made it and then shot the eight in the win. Then beat him four more in a row. He was furious after the first game.
What about 3 consecutive foul rule = Auto loss?
Maybe in a local league, but I just looked through the official CSI rules and there doesn't seem to be any such rule. Do you have a rule number for that?
That is not a rule in 8 ball, or at least not in very many leagues. Too brutal when one player is down to just the 8 ball.
One pocket is the game where intentional fouls are employed the most. Intentionally fouling is not unsportsmanlike. The penalty for a foul is prescribed. To have a different penalty based on intention is not a good thing.
The good old days of straight 8 no slop bar room honor rules, saw many pretentious shots that were, "Just an accidental scratch" when spotting the opponents only remaining ball in the kitchen was unheard of.
The good old days of straight 8 no slop bar room honor rules, saw many pretentious shots that were, "Just an accidental scratch" when spotting the opponents only remaining ball in the kitchen was unheard of.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Not that day he wasn't. Strategy is as important as cuemanship.
I agree. Guessing the intent of the other player...who can really say for sure and a game shouldn't be dependent on it.
That's why I hate that game. When you can make a mistake or a "mistake" and penalize your opponent, that's a poorly written ruleset. There will always be rare cases that can't be predicted when writing rules but such an obvious loophole is junk. Shooting the opponent's ball in while knocking the cue ball off the table in one pocket at least carries a penalty of the fouling shooter. It's a little bit of an exploit but is appropriate given the nature of the game.
Here is the best example of intentionally fouling to try to gain an advantage:
Excruciating to watch and the announcers weren't paying attention so it took them a couple of innings to catch up.
He gains because he doing this to very weak players who take BIH and set it up straight in the hole.
Give me BIH on purpose a couple times and that idea would end real fast, and I’m not a great player.
This move would only work on weak players. Or in specific situations against stronger players.
Best
Fatboy<———needs lessons
I would just set the cue ball a hair off the end rail and roll into the 8 just enough that the cue ball freezes to the 8 now my opponent is kicking and has to make a good hit.
you foul if you touch the 8 first, though?
No. His last ball was the 9 which is now off the table. He is on the 8 and has ball in hand because "solids" shot the 9 in.
Great example, I need to watch this when I’m awake, I love this stuff
My 6 ball is hanging in the lower corner. I am not hooked here.
I could shoot the six, then clip the 7 (without moving the 8), sending my cue ball up to the opposite end rail and leaving my 7 out in space. If I play good speed I might even double up the 7-8 so you are hooked. I'm not winning every game from here, but I like my end of it. And I believe pocketing the 9 is the best play from my original diagram.
Here's another (below). I'm solids. What's my best play?
If I pocket the 5 I'm in trouble. There is no good way to break the 7 or bank it in.
If I roll the 5 towards the pocket then my opponent can use our move and shoot my 5 ball in illegally. I have ball in hand on the 7 and feel like I can't win.
But if I just shoot in their 9 ball and give them ball in hand, what are they going to do? Now I'm in a winning position.
Notice that in this example it's actually such a good move for both players that it has become a race to illegally pocket the opponent's ball. That's how common this is.
Let me know if you'd like more examples. Thanks guys!
oh alright, i took his answer as his solution to the initial table setup posed. my mistake