Foul..........Poor Form..........Genius Move?

Newsheriffintwn

Newsheriff Custom Cues
Gold Member
Silver Member
The game is 8 ball. In one local tournament I've played in for years.

There is a player who once in a safety battle will start purposely shooting his opponents balls in if they are in a beneficial position that could possible win them the game. Other balls are tied up as well so this most times isn't a position that the incoming player gets ball in hand and could easily just run out.

I've seen matches where the opponent uses his balls to gain the advantage only to have this person get the worst of it then simply shoot the opponents balls in directly removing the advantage gained. This is a obvious ball in hand foul resulting in ball in hand for incoming player, most times the incoming player is now at a disadvantage even with ball in hand.

What if any rule would cover this? Unsportsmanlike or a genius move?

Whats your opinion on this move?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I do that in bar rules 8 ball no issues. In standard 8 ball I can see situations coming up where you're hooked and or gain nothing by legal contact where I'd start looking for "hostile" blockers to shoot in or away. Tying up hostile balls is also doable.
 

Lawnboy77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m having a hard time seeing how he gains by pocketing the opponent’s balls and giving up ball-in-hand. I suppose there are those rare occasions though. I say fine with it. I’m just glad they recognize it as a foul. A foul giving ball in hand is some kind of abstract thought in many circles where 8 ball is played on bar boxes.
 

Inaction

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
VNEA had a rule for a short period where it was loss of game if you shot directly at an opponent's ball to pocket it. One year, late in the bracket, each player had a ball tied up with the 8, and there was a ball near a close pocket. Ball in hand would be an easy breakout opportunity. Player A asks if he can kick at the ball to pocket it in the corner, since he wouldn't be shooting "directly" at it. After some discussion, they flipped a coin to decide the ruling. The kick was not allowed.

Once, I tried to shoot the 8 in between two balls, and it hung up in the jaws of the pocket. I used several shots to move his balls closer to the 8, until there was no room to place the cue ball next to the 8 and win the game. I told the guy that I was going for a stalemate rerack, and he still tried tapping one of his closer and knocked the 8 in. I lost the match, most likely because his focus was sharpened due to his anger.
 

Texas Carom Club

pool is stupid and i hate all of you
Silver Member
The game is 8 ball. In one local tournament I've played in for years.

There is a player who once in a safety battle will start purposely shooting his opponents balls in if they are in a beneficial position that could possible win them the game. Other balls are tied up as well so this most times isn't a position that the incoming player gets ball in hand and could easily just run out.

I've seen matches where the opponent uses his balls to gain the advantage only to have this person get the worst of it then simply shoot the opponents balls in directly removing the advantage gained. This is a obvious ball in hand foul resulting in ball in hand for incoming player, most times the incoming player is now at a disadvantage even with ball in hand.

What if any rule would cover this? Unsportsmanlike or a genius move?

Whats your opinion on this move?
i do it whenever the situation calls for it, take away a key ball for a break out give em the rock with nothing to shoot and next to no way to play defense
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member

The 8-ball game I linked shows something similar. The solid team has one ball left and it doesn't go. The stripes team has several balls left and their 15 (ball connected to the solid) can't be made with BIH. A "tactical" game broke out and was misplayed badly by the stripes. 8-ball is fun!!!
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... There is a player who once in a safety battle will start purposely shooting his opponents balls in if they are in a beneficial position that could possible win them the game. Other balls are tied up as well so this most times isn't a position that the incoming player gets ball in hand and could easily just run out.
...
I'd like to see an example position.

Are these players who probably won't run the last three balls?
 

9BallKY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd like to see an example position.

Are these players who probably won't run the last three balls?
Yeah I can’t see where giving up bih is going to benefit a player much I know there’s situations where it might but more than once in a game I don’t like your chances.
 

Texas Carom Club

pool is stupid and i hate all of you
Silver Member
Yeah I can’t see where giving up bih is going to benefit a player much I know there’s situations where it might but more than once in a game I don’t like your chances.
it wouldnt be more than once a game if it even comes up, and ive used it to beat much better shooters, much better and one guy just gave me a nod as to say nice move

gotta know when the time is right and the lay of the balls favors you over them
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m having a hard time seeing how he gains by pocketing the opponent’s balls and giving up ball-in-hand. I suppose there are those rare occasions though. I say fine with it. I’m just glad they recognize it as a foul. A foul giving ball in hand is some kind of abstract thought in many circles where 8 ball is played on bar boxes.
Depends on the player and stakes. If you can obfuscate what might be an easy out for your opponent, it's better than conceding. Often times, ducks can be the only kind of pattern a player can formulate. If you ruin that pattern, you win. Even strong players don't have to get out of a discombobulated pattern.
 

9BallKY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i do it whenever the situation calls for it, take away a key ball for a break out give em the rock with nothing to shoot and next to no way to play defense
If I’ve got bih and my balls are tied up your probably not going to like your next shot. The OP said balls so I was taking it as more than once. The first one you shoot in is a foul so to pockets balls you would have to do it more than once. I can see rare occasions where it might work but they would be few and far between.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The game is 8 ball. In one local tournament I've played in for years.

There is a player who once in a safety battle will start purposely shooting his opponents balls in if they are in a beneficial position that could possible win them the game. Other balls are tied up as well so this most times isn't a position that the incoming player gets ball in hand and could easily just run out.

I've seen matches where the opponent uses his balls to gain the advantage only to have this person get the worst of it then simply shoot the opponents balls in directly removing the advantage gained. This is a obvious ball in hand foul resulting in ball in hand for incoming player, most times the incoming player is now at a disadvantage even with ball in hand.

What if any rule would cover this? Unsportsmanlike or a genius move?

Whats your opinion on this move?
I can't think of any situation (assuming the players are any good) where BIH would have them at a disadvantage. Could you post a diagram of a situation like that?
 

geoff_182

Member
I did this in a league game a few years ago. My opponent wasn't happy about it. He was a "captain" on the other team, and a better player than me, but I ended up winning the game.

The situation was: the 8-ball was tied up with one of my balls near the rail, such that neither of the balls would go cleanly. I had 1 other ball left (I think) that I could have gone for, but wasnt confident in going for it and getting the breakout. My opponent had 1 ball left that was near a pocket, and closer to the 8-ball cluster. I sank his ball, giving him BIH. He went for some kind of bank I think and missed, then I ran out.

Of course it depends on who you are playing against also. The guy I was playing is an aggressive player, and doesn't like to play safety's. "prick pool" as he calls it. Against a more tactical player, it may not have worked. If with BIH, he hit the 8-ball softly to clear my ball away from it, but leave the cue tied up to the 8, that would have made it very difficult for me.
 

Texas Carom Club

pool is stupid and i hate all of you
Silver Member
If I’ve got bih and my balls are tied up your probably not going to like your next shot. The OP said balls so I was taking it as more than once. The first one you shoot in is a foul so to pockets balls you would have to do it more than once. I can see rare occasions where it might work but they would be few and far between.
i wouldnt do it against a much better shooter if it didnt heavily favor me, the guy was around 600 and already had 2 run outs in the set lol
had one ball tied to mine on the rail sort of close to the pocket, with one of his near the pocket to but it out, so i shot that one, i had 5-6 balls on the table and his other free one was up table hanging out with a cluster of mine
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I'd like to see an example position.

Are these players who probably won't run the last three balls?
I had it happen to me during a tournament. My opponents ball, my ball, and the 8 were all tied up on the long rail in such a way that it looked like it would have required a lot of luck to get a break out and position on the ball in the pile. My other remaining 3 balls were on the opposite side of the table, 1 in the jaws. I moved a ball into a position that made it easier to make a good break out and my opponent pocketed my ball. I took a shot at the break out going 2 or 3 rails while pocketing a ball and just missed the break out. I think I tried 2 break out shots going multiple rails but missed the pile both times while my opponent continued clearing my balls for me. I was wondering earlier how my opponent was going to deal with that tied up ball, I found out. Lesson learned, I will definitely play it different next time.
 

theyonger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wouldn't even say genius move. Totally normal move if the layout demands the strategy.

Saying its even "prick pool" is stupid, that's the game. One pocket players know "prick pool" more than anyone and thats what makes it fun :p
 
Top