Other player could return by making the 14 forcing you to make a difficult play. I see either shooting the 8 up table off the one or going gently off the 8 and leaving the cue ball in the jaws where the one is.
Foul..........Poor Form..........Genius Move?
- Thread starter Newsheriffintwn
- Start date
SSDiver2112
Escott Cues
Here’s a twist on it. In a league game a teammate had his ball tied up with the 8 ball which was next to the pocket. He was about to try some crazy shot which obviously looked like it would end bad. The captain jumped up calling a time out and started talking to the player, knowing full well he was out of time outs. The other team yelled foul and took ball in hand without realizing that they got tricked into shooting at the eight ball. They opened it up and we won.
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I guess I can't really think of any way that the OP's strategy gets anything better than stalemate.
I would agree with your assessment bolded above. But assuming their opponent is the same skill level, I would still say the BIH gives them the advantage. Maybe not a run out, but an advantage.
I've used it several times in my favor
So I'm stripes, I now have BIH, and the 3 ball is gone? I'd definitely think I have the advantage here. Maybe a poor player would not, but anyone who plays solid 8-ball should win from there.
Maybe I misread your post with my first answer. In your scenario I would NEVER pocket my opponents 3 ball and give them BIH.
I'm nearly an exclusive 9ft player, so that carom would be my counter with that level of difficulty in mind. On a valley the carom would be a lock...lol
It's hard to discuss the potential 'what ifs' when we have no clue the resulting position of the 12 after the carom. Regardless if the 5 drops or not.
I could just as easily say that after the 5 drops, the 12 will be away from the rail just enough to prevent a direct hit and cut off 75% of contact surface for the 1 long rail kick. With the balls in that position. Even the 1 long rail will not generate coverage for solids on the 12, and the up/down short rail kick will require a good amount of spin and will very likely provide a clean look at the 12 even with legal contact on the 7.
The kick safe on the 5 is real easy, but doesn't advance the game at all. That said, depending on the spd of my opponent it may still be the best play. I like the odds of a clean look even after a legal shot by stripes. Many less IQ savy might shoot for the bigger 9 ball in that spot which definitely puts me in the driver's seat. Slow rolling a kick at the 7 with hopes of tying me up, are odds I like against anyone under 700.
Is the carom going to guarentee me the win...?..., hell no. Is it a gamble...?... hell yes. Just saying that's the best play to counter your intentional foul with potting the 9, imo.
So, is the intentional 9 ball foul the best move for solids...? Possibly. Definitely puts the opponent in a tough spot. I think this one boils down to assessing your opponent's ability before pulling the trigger
Why not? What will your opponent do?
OK, one more try. I still like the illegal foul in both of my previous spots, yet it's still being debated. I stand by the intentional foul being best in those spots and LOVE my end of it, but not everyone is on the same page. Hopefully this example will bring unanimous agreement.
I'm solids in the diagram below. I'm shooting in their 15 ball 100% of the time. They can't make a legal hit on the 9 without a jump shot and my 5 ball is near hanging. I believe solids wins from here, so the illegal foul seems very good. Anything else would seem silly. Agreed?
I'm solids in the diagram below. I'm shooting in their 15 ball 100% of the time. They can't make a legal hit on the 9 without a jump shot and my 5 ball is near hanging. I believe solids wins from here, so the illegal foul seems very good. Anything else would seem silly. Agreed?
Here's a similar spot to the one I debated with JV, but without the possibility of a reasonable carom. JV, I don't disagree that the carom is a good try, I just think the intentional foul is a good try for solids. But in this case I think shooting the 15 in is definitely best.
So this post and my last post are two examples where the illegal foul is a good shot. One was extreme (they couldn't even hit their ball), the other is more common. Thoughts?
So this post and my last post are two examples where the illegal foul is a good shot. One was extreme (they couldn't even hit their ball), the other is more common. Thoughts?
Agree on each of your examples
I have had opponents do that in our state BCA tournament with a ref watching, no foul was called other than BIH for incoming player.
See posts 42, and 56. I think this is the explanation.
Nope...
...and nope...lol
You could with a smidge more effort roll the into the 5 banking it over to the long rail. You're opponent is still snookered without BIH. What do they do to be aggressive from there..? Take a full stroke flier one rail and kick the 15 in...? They're not going to bust open that cluster from there, even if they manage to hit the long rail before clipping the 15. Assuming the BIH after their inning. You then play another legal shot by caroming in their 15 off your 2 ball. That now gives you another insurance ball once they either hit the nine or you break open the cluster after potting the 5 or 2.
Again, the kick safe is real easy with the 5. The best the opponent can hope for is a clean look at the 15, but they aren't going to open the 9 up with the CB in the top left corner. That said I really like the chances of snookering them on the 15. If they have a clean look at the edge of the 9, then that's good for me. Otherwise it's now on them not to foul. Am I coming out with the win going my suggested route...?..., who knows.
Look, I'm not saying that the intentional fouls you described aren't good moves. ...and in all cases are definitely the easiest and quickest plays to gain the advantage. However, when I look at them I definitely see other non-foul shots that still put the opponent in bad spots. Ability to execute will determine the outcomes. That said, your intentional foul approach is without question the easier method to gain the advantage.
Hopefully someday we can play some of these out in person. I think it would be entertaining.
In and safe has always been legal in 8-ball.
If you play all the rules 8-ball is a great strategy game and in many ways its as entertaining as 9-ball
if you like to see the moves that can be made to prevent the other side from getting out.
You bring up some interesting points and options JV.
I agree it would be fun to play these out in person. One thing I'll say is that I am 100% on each intentional foul. When people start typing about easy caroms and kick safes it always surprises me. My definition of easy isn't whether I'm capable of doing something the majority of the time on my practice table, it's being able to do something a number of times in a row while tired and under pressure. For me neither of these shots are automatic or without a lot of risk.
There are a lot of shots some people have developed to a comfort level I don't have though, and a lot of ways to approach the game. In the end we each have to find our own style and make it work for us and that might not always look the same.
That's one thing that always makes me squirm in my chair while watching my team mates or friends play a game of 8-ball. I hate when they try to do "too much".
Agree..., but it's relative to the individual.
The alternative approaches I suggested earlier are not what I would personally consider risky. Far from it actually. If we were to consider the intentional fouls shots being at a 100% success rate. I'd put my alternatives >90% to be safe, and lets say >80% to require a kick out of a snooker. That's with not providing my opponent BIH.
Words are cheap I know.
I'm curious to know what the op thinks as he brought up the question of it being unsportsmanlike or a smart move