Are these fundamentals solid?

[bbb]

what one can do is watch pro matches from the video recorded era, i.e. ~1985 to 2022. i have done that, and my conclusion is that today's pros are simply better. despite playing on tighter pockets. better in every aspect of the game. in the hypothetic time travel tour, SVB would crush them.

with that said i would enjoy watching a pro trying the high stance approach today.

1)His fundamentals are fine (delivering a straight cue). So yes
2) He would be able to compete at straight pools highest level today. And yes.

Of course he would have no chance at rotation against today's players

guys
if mosconi was born in 2000 and his dad had a poolroom
and he spent the time and devotion training on modern equipment and learning the modern game
like the time and devotion he did in real life
had modern technology and knowledge available
dont you think he would among the best today
if you dont
then we can agree to disagree
i will say it again
champions have "IT"

 

[xX-Wizard-Xx]

guys
if mosconi was born in 2000 and his dad had a poolroom
and he spent the time and devotion training on modern equipment anf learning the modern game
like the time and devotion he did in real life
had modern technology and knowledge available
dont you think he would among the best today
if you dont
then we can agree to disagree
i will say it again
champions have "IT"

he might have become a video game junkie

 

[Zerksies]

mosconi had a stroke and fats was at least in his 70's
you dont think these guys ran racks in their prime?
to quote john mcEnroe
YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They were 64 and 63 in this video. Get your facts straight. You’ve got to be a moron to assume that Mr.526 didn’t run racks in his prime of playing straight pool? This tread is about the fundamentals. I am clearly stating that the stance of pool has changed Over the years. Years ago it was more common to be a little upright whereas today it’s almost chin touching the cue.

Now if you want to talk about the “game play” they are clearly not using a “modern” strategy of play, the route selection is not the greatest. They are clearly not using a breaking strategy. And going by the game I’m not seeing a push out rule.

This is gameplay in different decades. They were the best of their time.

Why don’t you watch the video before you comment on something.

 

[MattPoland]

guys
if mosconi was born in 2000 and his dad had a poolroom
and he spent the time and devotion training on modern equipment anf learning the modern game
like the time and devotion he did in real life
had modern technology and knowledge available
dont you think he would among the best today
if you dont
then we can agree to disagree
i will say it again
champions have "IT"

I think the times help shape the individual journey a person takes. Mosconi without the backdrop and pressures of The Great Depression might have been just as likely to hang up his cue and become a plumber before he ever started building his pool legacy.

(As a particular trade, I picked plumber out of a hat)

 

[decent dennis]

He didn't stand anything like his book in these videos. He looks about the same as a modern pool player in the videos.

I'd bet the book wasn't even written by him, and he had some photographer pose him.

Nobody posed Mosconi

 

[iusedtoberich]

Nobody posed Mosconi

How do you explain he looks nothing like the still photograph in any of the shots in the videos in this thread? One he looks in his 50's, and the other video he is in his mid 60's. His head position is pretty "normal" for today's players. Only his stroke is much different. Fats, on the other hand, does look like the still picture of Willy in the videos.

I believe it was Jay, years ago he wrote something to the affect on these forums, that Willie just lended his name to his instructional books, and didn't write any of them.

 

[bbb]

They were 64 and 63 in this video. Get your facts straight. You’ve got to be a moron to assume that Mr.526 didn’t run racks in his prime of playing straight pool? This tread is about the fundamentals. I am clearly stating that the stance of pool has changed Over the years. Years ago it was more common to be a little upright whereas today it’s almost chin touching the cue.

Now if you want to talk about the “game play” they are clearly not using a “modern” strategy of play, the route selection is not the greatest. They are clearly not using a breaking strategy. And going by the game I’m not seeing a push out rule.

This is gameplay in different decades. They were the best of their time.

Why don’t you watch the video before you comment on something.

mosconi was 43 when he had his stroke (1956)
yes the chin on the cue has become more popular for pool now we agree on that
as for their game play they were over the hill and it was "made for tv"
if you think they dont know the correct patterns (you say above ..................the route selection is not the greatest)
YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS!!!!
maybe they couldnt execute their plans anymore or have the stroke to go another way
i am sorry i did not want to spend over an hour watching the video
but you were the one that said they werent running racks not me

 

[Zerksies]

mosconi was 43 when he had his stroke (1956)
yes the chin on the cue has become more popular for pool now we agree on that
as for their game play they were over the hill and it was "made for tv"
if you think they dont know the correct patterns (you say above ..................the route selection is not the greatest)
YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS!!!!
maybe they couldnt execute their plans anymore or have the stroke to go another way
i am sorry i did not want to spend over an hour watching the video
but you were the one that said they werent running racks not me

Watch the video neither of them are running racks. Again be better equipped witch knowledge before you make a rebuttle. Each game had multiple innings

 

[MattPoland]

Nobody posed Mosconi

And nobody puts Mosconi in the corner.

 

[PoolBum]

And nobody puts Mosconi in the corner.

Dirty posting?

 

[bbb]

Watch the video neither of them are running racks. Again be better equipped witch knowledge before you make a rebuttle. Each game had multiple innings

What do ypu expect from old geizers (sp)
i am confident in my knowledge about pool and life

 

[straightline]

1)His fundamentals are fine (delivering a straight cue). So yes
2) He would be able to compete at straight pools highest level today. And yes.

Of course he would have no chance at rotation against today's players

The stories as told by himself say he hated 9 ball but at Johnston City he put a 14 on some guy for cash.

 

[ShootingArts]

Willie had a handful of pool strokes at his disposal including the pendulum. A mistake to think he was a one trick pony. As for the idea that somebody that could run over a hundred balls at 14.1 Continuous every day of the week on demand would not be able to shoot rotation is flat wrong.

Watching a young Willie changed my idea of what is possible on a pool table. Efren did too. I'm still waiting for the third person.

Hu

 

[Tin Man]

BBB is spot on.

Asking who would win in 9 ball between Mosconi and Filler is like asking who would win at golf between Mickey Mantel and Tiger Woods.

 

[straightline]

BBB is spot on.

Asking who would win in 9 ball between Mosconi and Filler is like asking who would win at golf between Mickey Mantel and Tiger Woods.

Ditto for them in his time; politics being the operative factor. Course he never took on the likes of Lassiter in any definitive way; in rotation of course.

 

[arnaldo]

I believe it was Jay, years ago he wrote something to the effect on these forums, that Willie just lent his name to his instructional books, and didn't write any of them.

Jay is exactly right; moreover, Charlie Ursitti, whose comments -- about anything vital relating to Mosconi -- are totally beyond dispute, said precisely the same thing in casual conversational settings.

Essentially, Willies's pool genius and uncanny game judgments were in inverse proportion to his judgment about choice of ghostwriters (and photographers) to whom he often too lightly and hurriedly conferred his imprimatur for most of the book and booklet publications (and posed atypical stances) bearing his name and published on his (and the publisher's) behalf.

Arnaldo ~ This is commonly why fictitious biographical "facts" and ghostwriter-invented how-to advice/instructions become misleadingly (and profitably) attributed to performers in a wide variety of sports and entertainment worlds, for fans and the general public's consumption.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

[Guy Manges]

Life changes, We hope... Guy

 

[tomatoshooter]

Would anyone teach someone to setup and stroke a cue ball like this now days? Elbow hanging low and head in the clouds and such? Other things mentioned in this book's section on fundamental are a stroke length no longer than 8 inches and feet no more than 6 inches apart. Yes he really says these things. Could Willie hang in today's world?View attachment 660479

Are they referring to the backswing as 8 inches? That's not particularly short. Looking at the pictures, that looks like at least 16" of stick past his bridge hand.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Are they referring to the backswing as 8 inches? That's not particularly short. Looking at the pictures, that looks like at least 16" of stick past his bridge hand.

He also had a slip stroke

 

[tomatoshooter]

Well, he played a different game .
Sorry, the players today are better . Much better mechanics and fundamentals .
Mosconi would have hated the pockets today imo .

I would expect Moscone to benefit from the decades of development in the sport and be very competitive today. If you grabbed a time machine and grabbed 1960 Willie and dropped him into a 14.1 tournament today, Bill and Ted style, I think he'd be competitive but he wouldn't have the opportunity to benefit from the advancements in the game and would come up short. If he was playing full time today, he'd do well.