Isn't the outside english just for position? You hit it at a speed where the gearing effect isn't in play. Am I reading this wrong?
Chris Reinhold "Frozen ball goes in easier with thicker hit?"
- Thread starter FeelDaShot
- Start date
I appreciate the response but it didn't make much sense to me lol. He's shooting all draw shots with outside english in the video. Your comment refers to shooting with a rolling cue ball and follow(?).
He's not using much if any outside on all those shots, notice how hard he's striking the cue ball. With allot of center draw your ability to hit the shot fatter (creating the angle off the obj ball with spin/speed) thus creating an angle off the object ball that looks like left-side or right-side cueing. The obj. ball can be hit thicker at this speed forcing the cut angle with new/clean balls/cloth.
When you shoot it this way, the obj. ball when it hits the pocket facing it has inside spin, increasing the pock ability of the ball as it strikes the facing with left or right object ball rotation.
When you shoot it this way, the obj. ball when it hits the pocket facing it has inside spin, increasing the pock ability of the ball as it strikes the facing with left or right object ball rotation.
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Per the first 10 seconds of dialog in Chris' video: "so you use low right and low left to go back and forth..."
If you're still not convinced that he's using outside english, check out the video below by Neils Feijen which show the exact same drill. He has a virtual cue ball that shows the tip placement on each shot.
As your cue ball comes ''across'' the obj. ball facing with no outside spin, it puts rotation on too that ball, thus when entering the hole and hitting the pocket facing it rotates ''inward''.
If you use allot of outside cueing to make the object ball you have to hit the obj. ball fatter and gear/steer the obj. ball into the pocket.
Just like using an oversized cue ball on a bar table, you HAVE to hit the obj ball first with allot of spin to steer it in. You Can't hit a bigger ball into a smaller ball/and rail at the same time.
With outside cueing and making the obj ball at speed the obj ball will enter the pocket with a spin that is not willing to allow the obj. ball to turn inward, it will want to dbl the pocket unless hit PERFECT (unless your playing on bucket pockets).
It will come out Especially at higher speeds.
This is advanced knowledge that new players have difficulty understanding and I've never taught this to inexperienced students.
I would just begin with hitting the ball/rail same time, as Mosconi said in his early 50's BCA type league pocketbooks, that also explained the diamond counting system.
If you use allot of outside cueing to make the object ball you have to hit the obj. ball fatter and gear/steer the obj. ball into the pocket.
Just like using an oversized cue ball on a bar table, you HAVE to hit the obj ball first with allot of spin to steer it in. You Can't hit a bigger ball into a smaller ball/and rail at the same time.
With outside cueing and making the obj ball at speed the obj ball will enter the pocket with a spin that is not willing to allow the obj. ball to turn inward, it will want to dbl the pocket unless hit PERFECT (unless your playing on bucket pockets).
It will come out Especially at higher speeds.
This is advanced knowledge that new players have difficulty understanding and I've never taught this to inexperienced students.
I would just begin with hitting the ball/rail same time, as Mosconi said in his early 50's BCA type league pocketbooks, that also explained the diamond counting system.
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I don't think so.
If I visualize shooting the same shot with right English and no English without changing anything else, the version of the shot without English cuts less.
Otherwise known as rail side or ball side english.
Hitting it hard? whoopie do do.. What if the game asks you to hit it soft? You better be able to do it all or take a seat.
I would find what works and practice it repeatedly.
Just to pocket the ball I would do both.
High cue ball thick hit, high cue ball rail and ball, I prefer full hit but can do both.
Once I felt comfortable I would hit that shot with every stroke and english known to mankind and maybe
invent a few, if you want to be a player.
If you just want to play pool then learn the shot and struggle on the next shot and next shot.
You can only make so many shots before the position player puts the knife in your back.
Hitting it hard? whoopie do do.. What if the game asks you to hit it soft? You better be able to do it all or take a seat.
I would find what works and practice it repeatedly.
Just to pocket the ball I would do both.
High cue ball thick hit, high cue ball rail and ball, I prefer full hit but can do both.
Once I felt comfortable I would hit that shot with every stroke and english known to mankind and maybe
invent a few, if you want to be a player.
If you just want to play pool then learn the shot and struggle on the next shot and next shot.
You can only make so many shots before the position player puts the knife in your back.
You been watching me play? Looks hard as shit, doesn't it?!
ESPECIALLY on worn, dirty cloth. New slick cloth will retain the cue ball backspin for a longer distance at identical speeds.
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That was me behind the curtain in the trench coat, dark glasses, notebook and a 18'' pencil.
Woodshaft
Do what works for YOU!
There is no "standard" method of making an object ball that is frozen on a rail. Since you have to play position for your next shot and/or avoid a cue ball scratch, speed and English are going to vary every time.
That said, I tend to use a little inside English when it's allowable-- it tends to "kick" the object ball truer down the rail towards the pocket.
I use a very low deflection shaft (Predator Vantage), so that obviously makes the shot easier too lol.
That said, I tend to use a little inside English when it's allowable-- it tends to "kick" the object ball truer down the rail towards the pocket.
I use a very low deflection shaft (Predator Vantage), so that obviously makes the shot easier too lol.
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he may play well, but he doesnt understand how things work. such as your stroke so called getting through the ball or whatever he means.
he has the fallacies that many have from playing without proper knowledge of how stroke works.
hitting a ball fatter than it should be is wrong. and he probably hits it right but thinks he is hitting it thicker.
but he does have a good work ethic
he has the fallacies that many have from playing without proper knowledge of how stroke works.
hitting a ball fatter than it should be is wrong. and he probably hits it right but thinks he is hitting it thicker.
but he does have a good work ethic
Glad to hear it was a pencil.
I haven't hit a ball since then and now I know my fear was unwarranted.
It is interesting and valid point hat there are many who 'teach' and play well but don't actually understand the reasons things are.
When an object ball is frozen to the rail I just cut it in like the rail is not even there. It has always worked for me.
Unless we hate money we all learned to do that.
There certainly is value in knowing the hows and whys of what we do though.
Say what?
Damn, sometimes I wonder if I did anything right! A hunnert years ago I learned how to make balls on the rail on dead cushions and ratty cloth. Things haven't changed much other than the amount behind the ball I can hit. Some of those old tables I could hit the rail a full inch behind a ball and pocket it, using skid and cushion compression.
Even today, if the only goal is to pocket the ball or if variations in speed will take care of shape I never aim at ball and rail at the same time if the ball is far from the pocket. The reason is simple, If I hit the ball a gnat's ass thick I'm gonna miss. On the other hand, if I shoot a bit rail first, granted not that full inch but more like an eighth to a quarter inch, more depending on the angle, the cue ball will skid on the rail or the cushion will compress depends on angle. Either way I nudge the object ball down the rail and it falls.
I did note that the video talking about hugging the rail often didn't! No need to hug the rail anyway and that was another thing learned. Balls near the cushion can be aimed at the middle of the sweet spot, halfway between the rail it is on and the point it is facing. Again, the reason is simple. This shot is a little more error tolerant. We don't shoot all the way to one side for most other shots, no reason to do it running down the rail.
In my very early days of playing pool running down the rail was a very hard shot for me. Once I learned the things mentioned here, it became my first cinch shot. A final trick, if you aren't absolutely sure neither tit sticks out, when the cue ball and object ball are frozen on opposite sides of the side pocket always shoot with low inside(nearer the cushion), walking the ball a hair out passing the side pocket and back into the object ball. This is a shot where speed, spin, and exact aim all matter but one easy to master with a little practice.
The rails often make shots easier. I don't think they ever make them harder unless you are trying to hit perfectly ball and cushion together or ball first.
Hu
Even today, if the only goal is to pocket the ball or if variations in speed will take care of shape I never aim at ball and rail at the same time if the ball is far from the pocket. The reason is simple, If I hit the ball a gnat's ass thick I'm gonna miss. On the other hand, if I shoot a bit rail first, granted not that full inch but more like an eighth to a quarter inch, more depending on the angle, the cue ball will skid on the rail or the cushion will compress depends on angle. Either way I nudge the object ball down the rail and it falls.
I did note that the video talking about hugging the rail often didn't! No need to hug the rail anyway and that was another thing learned. Balls near the cushion can be aimed at the middle of the sweet spot, halfway between the rail it is on and the point it is facing. Again, the reason is simple. This shot is a little more error tolerant. We don't shoot all the way to one side for most other shots, no reason to do it running down the rail.
In my very early days of playing pool running down the rail was a very hard shot for me. Once I learned the things mentioned here, it became my first cinch shot. A final trick, if you aren't absolutely sure neither tit sticks out, when the cue ball and object ball are frozen on opposite sides of the side pocket always shoot with low inside(nearer the cushion), walking the ball a hair out passing the side pocket and back into the object ball. This is a shot where speed, spin, and exact aim all matter but one easy to master with a little practice.
The rails often make shots easier. I don't think they ever make them harder unless you are trying to hit perfectly ball and cushion together or ball first.
Hu
YES!
Hitting a little thick compensates for the spin-induced throw - just the way you'd aim if the rail wasn't there.
pj
chgo