He was playing the "no early 10 ball" version of 10 ball. Pretty good shooting.
Fargo question- could be a dumb one…
- Thread starter Nick8400
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Well, yes, that's if you're going to gamble. Race to 7 or whatever. But if you want to know how well you play against the ghost -- are you better or worse -- the best way to tell is by your total win/loss record, just like FargoRate. Someone might say, "I beat the ghost," when what really happened is that they won a single race to 3 one time but they are 25 and 80 against the ghost lifetime, which is like 150 FargoRate below.
Being better against the ghost means you're favored in any length race.
no gamble no ghost in my neck of the woods.
I don't see any future in gambling with the Ghost. Maybe if I can get him to post.
Totally correct. I was under that same mentality until I played about 20 sets against the ghost over a three day period just to see. I did NOT win 50% of those sets like I thought I would have.
Not a problem. I just stiff him. If I get good enough to win, then we'll post.I don't see any future in gambling with the Ghost. Maybe if I can get him to post.
I was in a small room where Fedor Gorst was practicing once. Nobody else there except me and another guy cleaning the tables. I didn't know who Fedor was at the time but figured out he was quite a player pretty fast.
Fedor missed once or at most twice in an hour playing the ghost. Pro-style without picking up the cue ball. His focus in practice was more intense than what I'd seen from anyone else in competition.
Reminds me of what Wimpy Lassiter once said about watching someone for an hour and if they missed, he knew that was someone he would beat.
Had a chance to talk with a couple guys who knew Jack Hines well back in the 90's. Hines lived with one guy in his mother's house and dated the other guy's daughter. Like everybody else who ever tried to help Jack, they didn't have much good to say about him as a person.
One thing that came up though was that Hines once ran over 50 racks against the ghost on a Valley barbox taking cue ball in hand. That's one story I believe really happened. I've heard from someone else that he also did it another time in Fort Worth.
One thing that came up though was that Hines once ran over 50 racks against the ghost on a Valley barbox taking cue ball in hand. That's one story I believe really happened. I've heard from someone else that he also did it another time in Fort Worth.
I wonder what the bet, if any, was.
No bet was mentioned, but I'd say it's possible there was some kind of side bet. The guy who saw him do it did say that he once gave Jack some money (maybe $500) to back him in a tournament at Memphis. Jack either won or finished in the money but absconded with the backer's half. I think he said Jack lost it all gambling. In any event, he didn't make it back with anything.
He also said that he had to run Jack off from coming to his house to see his daughter after that.
Ok you caught me out. I was just making an excuse. Really just afraid to play.
My favorite ghost story was on Mike Dooley.
It went something like this. He went to Alaska and played in a tournament on an island. He had no luck in the tournament. He didn't have enough money to get off the island. There was a local female that seemed to have an attraction for him. However the attraction was not mutual. He couldn't get any action other than the Ghost for $50 a rack. He beat the ghost out of $250 and made a polite but hasty retreat back to Seattle. Amazing how motivation can bring out a person's best game.
It went something like this. He went to Alaska and played in a tournament on an island. He had no luck in the tournament. He didn't have enough money to get off the island. There was a local female that seemed to have an attraction for him. However the attraction was not mutual. He couldn't get any action other than the Ghost for $50 a rack. He beat the ghost out of $250 and made a polite but hasty retreat back to Seattle. Amazing how motivation can bring out a person's best game.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Why on earth would someone play safe with ball in hand? Is he hoping you foul and give up ball in hand? I could see if he had a cluster and he broke that up and played safe. The only reason I can think of to play safe in his position is to be a jerk. I'm glad you schooled him.Rambling Grampa story alert:
Playing Mixed Scotch Doubles with the wife. We broke and ran down to our last two balls and my wife scratched attempting a difficult shape. They had 7 balls all well spread with no problem balls. He took ball in hand and played safe. I couldn't figure why as he didn't need to improve any of their balls. He leaves me behind his ball near the side rail and close to the side pocket. One of our balls was a couple of inches off the same side rail and around the second diamond. My two rail kick system showed the 8 was in the way but if I shortened it enough to clear the 8 it had a chance of being a 3 rail kick. I called it and made it. With it brushing their ball that had the other one of ours blocked. Moved it just enough and we got out. Oh the look on hisface. The transition from Smug to uh what the....was priceless
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
The don't call him the Magician for nothing.
One other caveat...
Beating the 9 Ball Ghost 20 years ago vs now, I'd say it took at least a 20 point higher Fargo to beat it back then, if not more. I can only remember ever seeing top players beating the 9 ball ghost with a wooden rack. It seemed they constantly had difficulties to deal with -- combos, clusters, banks, and kisses. Watch any random guy playing the ghost now and all you'll see are wide open tables.
Play the ghost for an hour and move a coin around the table. How good do you have to be to come out ahead? Maybe 670+ on a familiar table, and 700+ on any non-gaffed table. Table familiarity may be worth more than 30 points.
I think I watched Efren warming up once (I honestly can't remember if I saw this live in person or on video as all my pool memories are beginning to blend together) and he broke and ran out three 15 ball rotational racks in a row. Maybe one of the few who could spook the rotation ghost.
Beating the 9 Ball Ghost 20 years ago vs now, I'd say it took at least a 20 point higher Fargo to beat it back then, if not more. I can only remember ever seeing top players beating the 9 ball ghost with a wooden rack. It seemed they constantly had difficulties to deal with -- combos, clusters, banks, and kisses. Watch any random guy playing the ghost now and all you'll see are wide open tables.
Play the ghost for an hour and move a coin around the table. How good do you have to be to come out ahead? Maybe 670+ on a familiar table, and 700+ on any non-gaffed table. Table familiarity may be worth more than 30 points.
I think I watched Efren warming up once (I honestly can't remember if I saw this live in person or on video as all my pool memories are beginning to blend together) and he broke and ran out three 15 ball rotational racks in a row. Maybe one of the few who could spook the rotation ghost.
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Back in '85 or '86, I was watching Efren in the practice room at the Reno Sands 9 ball tournament. As he was practicing, a player I didn't know approached him and was barking for Efren to play him some straight pool. As they talked Efren broke and ran 2 racks in rotation, then stopped and asked, "are you sure you want to play straight pool?" The barking player just walked away.
I think the entire Fargo thing is just dumb. In good old days when Pool was thriving, there something called open play.
If no money was involved people played who ever for competition, and too gain knowledge.
If money was involved prople asked for handicap.
Back then there were no Pool leagues. Pool was one of few recreational options that was affordable for working people.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
That has to be a very short list.
if you dont know why a person in a doubles game might play safe with ball in hand means you really dont understand strategy.
and if you think it matters if playing a set or game by game is different in seeing if you can beat the ghost you are short on math skills.
because if you dont know simple probability you cant ever really make sound decisions about what to do.
there is a lot more to winning at pool than just shooting and playing position well.
and if you think it matters if playing a set or game by game is different in seeing if you can beat the ghost you are short on math skills.
because if you dont know simple probability you cant ever really make sound decisions about what to do.
there is a lot more to winning at pool than just shooting and playing position well.