Would 8 ball be much more interesting to the general TV viewing public if....

fish2 said:
1. Balls were clearly marked, say 7 blue balls, 7 Red ball and 1 black 8 ball
2. Timer - Each player has fixed amount of time for each game, you run out of time before finishing all your balls, you loose

just a thought....
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They used all one color balls before, was not really a thing that stuck although it was pretty clear what was what. The issue is for commentators, they can't really talk about the patterns or the shots. "Well, Bill, looks like he will be going for the yellow close to the pocket, then the yellow far from the pocket, then the yellow near the rail, after that to get to the yellow for the key shot on the 8 ball". Just does not work well that way.

I have never seen a pool match done by a time limit work out properly, they had a few time limited games and the thing looked like a horror show, players just banging away at balls trying to speed up the playing. It's already been discussed many times about how to do that, chess clock like time limit, overall match time, etc... I don't think any of that will work out well, the standard 30 second shot clock is just fine, and even then it would be for major events with a ref and time keeper on hand to do the work.

No matter how many gimmicks were tried over the years, things always came back to the standard 9 ball and 8 ball as the games that worked in tournaments and leagues.
 
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Cornerman said:
My photos are Casino 8-ball sets for American Pool. Been around forever.
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Well, maybe not quite forever. Here are the rules for reds-and-yellows eight ball, modestly named "BBC Co Billiards" by the Brunswick-Balke-Collender Company around 1908. This set of rules is from their 1914 rule book. I have not seen an early (clay) set of these balls, but reds-and-yellows were the official balls (phenolic) around 1980 and 1981 and used in the US Championships. I'm guessing that from about World War I until 1979, everyone simply used a regular set of balls and played stripes and solids.

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garczar said:
Really? Explain golf viewership #'s then? The problem isn't the game but simply in presentation. Snooker has been huge on tv for yrs. British 8b/Blackball has big viewing audiences as well. For pool to work on tv it has to be a fairly quick game with simple easy-to-follow rules. 8,9,or 10ball would all work if presented right.
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Golf works but it is a 4 hour game to watch (1st tee to finishing green) There is nothing fast about it.

Snooker works on TV but each game is at least 38 shots. There is nothing fast about it.

From these 2 above, one would conclude that speed detracts from the TV watchability.
 
hang-the-9 said:
They used all one color balls before, was not really a thing that stuck although it was pretty clear what was what. The issue is for commentators, they can't really talk about the patterns or the shots. "Well, Bill, looks like he will be going for the yellow close to the pocket, then the yellow far from the pocket, then the yellow near the rail, after that to get to the yellow for the key shot on the 8 ball. Just does not work well that way.

I have never seen a pool match done by a time limit work out properly, they had a few time limited games and the thing looked like a horror show, players just banging away at balls trying to speed up the playing. It's already been discussed many times about how to do that, chess clock like time limit, overall match time, etc...

No matter how many gimmicks were tried over the years, things always came back to the standard 9 ball and 8 ball as the games that worked in tournaments and leagues.
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Good point, commentary would be a nightmare. Even with one color there would still need to be numbers, letters, some way to distinguish individual balls.

Hu
 
MitchAlsup said:
Golf works but it is a 4 hour game to watch (1st tee to finishing green) There is nothing fast about it.

Snooker works on TV but each game is at least 38 shots. There is nothing fast about it.

From these 2 above, one would conclude that speed detracts from the TV watchability.
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For joe public sportsfan to watch pool it cannot be as slow as snooker. golf and snooker viewers know going in how long it takes. if a casual fan tries watching pool it needs to fairly quick and easy to follow/understand. watching mind numbing safety battles is never going to work.
 
garczar said:
?the red/black deal would only work for 8b. any other game would need color/#'s for sure.
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Eightball, one pocket, straight pool, but the fact remains commentary would be almost impossible. I was just thinking about playing and watching. I can't imagine the halls wanting to have two sets of balls for every table. Also what would be done about coin op tables? The balls would have limited usage when costs to be in business are high enough already.

I do remember hall owners getting the nighttime balls and such many years ago trying to attract a young crowd. Hard as it is to believe one of those halls aimed at kids and positioned for a little easier access almost in front of Greenway is credited with putting the legendary Greenway out of business. I remember when they first opened that place up front the owner tried a different cloth on every table. I have to admit that was when I discovered that blue cloth was very playable and camel, a light tan, played OK too but showed dirt way too well. Black, red, coffee, I don't remember what all, were all met with a resounding no! It wasn't long before the tables were recovered, long before the cloth wore out. LSU was the city university and I remember playing on a tiger striped table somewhere. Something else not ready for prime time, or any other time!

With old eyes I am starting to see the advantage of light blue or green but there are plenty of colors I still say no to. Thinking things through a little better, most of this stuff is trying to attract a young crowd. Young guys on a date don't need a table covered in blue balls to remind them!!

Hu
 
xX-Wizard-Xx said:
how did golf get a dedicated channel ... a channel i always skipped ... an entire channel 24/7 dedicated to nothing but guys/gals swinging a club into a golf ball with a goal of ringing a hole. this is basically no different than pool
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Golf wasn't rewarded with a dedicated channel like some rich kid who got a cushy job at a law form because his Dad knew somebody.

It was founded by none other than Arnald Palmer and a partner in the media/entertainment world. They did extensive research and raised $80 million in start up money. They did everything right but at the time golf already had popularity that pool never has or will have. Pool is not and never will be golf.

The Golf Channel created interesting content...replay of vintage matches, instruction, interviews. They covered less well known tournaments or early rounds or larger tournaments that the networks didn't see as important enough.

It started 17 years ago at a time when golf was already huge on major TV networks and ride the Tiger Woods wave when that came along.

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WobblyStroke said:
Golf is a game played by many, it is shown at beautiful venues unlike those you are likely to see as a player. The golfers have beautiful swings most golfers don't get to see in person let alone feel like they do the same thing. Plus the drama of a back9 in the final round of a major with a few guys in it is captivating.

Pool by comparison is played by way fewer people regularly and the TV tables look exactly like those amateurs play on. You can barely ever see a full stance to analyze a pro's technique too, tho that only affects hardcore pool nuts. Regular pool folks wouldn't be able to distinguish one style from another, and with mechanics so locked down in pool, many could convince themselves they have the same fundamentals as so and so on TV. At least winner break is back in world championships bc the drama of an alternate break final where one guy gets a lead is about as captivating as a lullaby.

Plus golf can have a channel--channels really as I know of at least 4 on my internet TV--because there are constantly events going on between all the different tours out there and ppl gobble up instructional vids and tip videos like crazy. Meanwhile in pool, bangers rather spend $700 on a new shaft to help their game rather than actually get a lesson to improve spin quality.

And finally the most obv reason: sponsors. There's a lot of money in golf and golf equipment sponsors provide a ton of it. Watching a replay of an event on NBCgolf channel is basically unwatchable as it is 50/50 ads. SkyGolf is nice tho, with picture in picture ads for live events and a much smaller amount than American TV for replays.

These games are not even comparable when you consider a middle of the road mini tour golfer makes as much as the very best pool players in the world...and that's not counting his sponsorship deals.
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I remember on one of Marks first podcast him saying that at any given time 24/7 that there are over 2 million pool games being played... What a market pool could have... Guy
 
Guy Manges said:
I remember on one of Marks first podcast him saying that at any given time 24/7 that there are over 2 million pool games being played... What a market pool could have... Guy
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Oh I wish. But to elaborate on something someone said above, pool is great to play and can be enjoyed by people that don't really know all that much about it. But you gotta really know a lot about it to enjoy watching it.
 
WobblyStroke said:
Oh I wish. But to elaborate on something someone said above, pool is great to play and can be enjoyed by people that don't really know all that much about it. But you gotta really know a lot about it to enjoy watching it.
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Yes your wright but that doesn't mean that I don't want our sport to grow in spectator, more spectators and believe that someday if we keep going that it will...
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Colors shmullers... all pool needs is a little old fashioned alpha manliness.

pj
chgo

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Yes, this should sell our sport, Oh wait this should destroy our sport... Most of the best players that ever lived have been big men with that feminine touch, Still are... Take the lady out of your game and you don't have a game... As a player surely you must know this... Guy
 
I don't understand this obsession with growing the sport and getting the general public to start watching.

I like shooting pool, if I choose to watch it there's plenty available.

I don't care if the players I watch are sponsored or god forbid, work for a living but keep their game up for competition.

To be honest, I find that the players that work a job and like the game enough to put there after hours into staying sharp so they can compete a little more interesting than those that figure a way around the working part.
 
garczar said:
For joe public sportsfan to watch pool it cannot be as slow as snooker. golf and snooker viewers know going in how long it takes. if a casual fan tries watching pool it needs to fairly quick and easy to follow/understand. watching mind numbing safety battles is never going to work.
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Do it like a baseball game, soon as the player starts walking around, zoom in on a hot chick in the stands and put up a kiss cam :)
 
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