Fatboy's Very Good Lawyer Advice

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Logandgriff

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I just posted the following in the "Where's Cocobolo Cowboy" thread but I want to repeat this here too:

Fatboy says: "I never take biz advice from a lawyer-that’s only 2nd worse than suicide."

I'm not sure about the suicide part but the part before the dash is very wise thinking. I've been a business lawyer for almost 50 years and one of the keys to my success was not giving business advice. Got a lot of client compliments about that.

IMO the business lawyer should figure out what the client wants and get it for him or her. If the law or the other side won't let you get there, figure out another way to get the client what he or she wants or as close to it as possible. Explain to the client what the situation is in clear and simple terms; the client does not want to be bothered with the details or legal b.s.

And return all client calls and emails within 15 minutes.
 
pwd72s

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
I knew I'd found the right lawyer when he told me that he never goes to court...that he writes contracts so there's no need to go to court. That was a couple of decades ago. So far, so good...
 
ShootingArts

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
(SlateMan)
and bill in 1 hour increments.... :)

And bill in 1 hour increments at his rate for everyone including the receptionist. I am pretty sure my lawyer billed in one hour increments for his answering machine. He could bill over 150 hours a week and still have time for three rounds of golf during the workweek. Funny thing, if I had billed like that in any of my businesses it would have been called fraud. Almost all politicians being lawyers has a lot to answer for!


I needed a lawyer. First one I went to gave me a contract to look at and sign. It was three pages in two different fonts and the text in the second font contradicted some of the text in the first font. The style of writing was different too. If that was the best he could do for himself... "NEXT!"

The next lawyer I talked to had health issues and didn't want to take on a case of that complexity.

Dang, in my small town that just left the family of crooked lawyers. They were pretty effective, as long as they were pointed in the same direction you were but you had to watch your back.

I settled on one of the less crooked of the crooks and it was off to the races! Two years later we have some decent dollars on the table. He spends twenty minutes telling me a story. In one sentence I told him nothing he said was relevant, we had that coin on the table. He calls me in the office to look at the paperwork. Lo and behold, he had gotten the big end of the stick! I pointed out an error. His secretary had made a mistake. I asked about something else. Another mistake on his secretary's part. A third thing. Yep, she blew it again! He probably would have fired her if all the mistakes hadn't been in his favor, about twenty thousand worth of mistakes.

My signature was needed so I told the lawyer to call me when my part got where I wanted it. He had seen me stick my toes in the dirt dealing with other people and knew I wasn't woofing. He called me thirty days later. I had made fifteen hundred a day for that month, not bad. Funniest thing, he had retrieved $3,000 for himself and was definitely tentative and uneasy asking if that was OK. As the OP says, I didn't care about details, just the bottom line. It was where I wanted it, I signed.

With respect to the OP who I realize is in a different area of law, It pays to remember that the lawyer is on their own side. As long as their side and yours is the same you are in good shape. When you and your lawyer's goals are no longer the same, watch out!

I have friends, family, and neighbors that are lawyers so I know that they aren't all bad. It is the 99% that make the one percent look bad!

Hu
 
alphadog

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Logandgriff said:
I just posted the following in the "Where's Cocobolo Cowboy" thread but I want to repeat this here too:

Fatboy says: "I never take biz advice from a lawyer-that’s only 2nd worse than suicide."

I'm not sure about the suicide part but the part before the dash is very wise thinking. I've been a business lawyer for almost 50 years and one of the keys to my success was not giving business advice. Got a lot of client compliments about that.

IMO the business lawyer should figure out what the client wants and get it for him or her. If the law or the other side won't let you get there, figure out another way to get the client what he or she wants or as close to it as possible. Explain to the client what the situation is in clear and simple terms; the client does not want to be bothered with the details or legal b.s.

And return all client calls and emails within 15 minutes.
Click to expand...
Anyone see the irony here ?
 
Jaden

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
pwd72s said:
I knew I'd found the right lawyer when he told me that he never goes to court...that he writes contracts so there's no need to go to court. That was a couple of decades ago. So far, so good...
Click to expand...
That's a horrible lawyer. Well, he may be a good lawyer, but no lawyer never needs to go to court. That's a lazy lawyer. It doesn't matter how well you write a contract, you will still get sued and there are things that a contract are no good for such as negligance.

The best lawyer would say something to the effect of, "I write contracts to avoid litigation; however, if it comes to litigation and the necessity of going to court, I make sure I have the tools in order to win".

Jaden
 
kling&allen

kling&allen

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Jaden said:
That's a horrible lawyer. Well, he may be a good lawyer, but no lawyer never needs to go to court. That's a lazy lawyer. It doesn't matter how well you write a contract, you will still get sued and there are things that a contract are no good for such as negligance.

The best lawyer would say something to the effect of, "I write contracts to avoid litigation; however, if it comes to litigation and the necessity of going to court, I make sure I have the tools in order to win".

Jaden
Click to expand...

The practice of law is highly specialized, much like medicine. This is especially true at bigger law firms. Your cardiologist can be a good doctor even if he (or she) hasn't seen a foot surgery since medical school. Most transactional attorneys (those who advise on business structure and write contracts) never go to court because they spend every minute of their working life studying their narrow aspect of the law. Even 100 years ago the attorney that negotiated/wrote a contact would not be the same attorney that tried a lawsuit over breach of that contract for various ethical and procedural reasons that I won't go into here.
 
Jaden

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
kling&allen said:
The practice of law is highly specialized, much like medicine. This is especially true at bigger law firms. Your cardiologist can be a good doctor even if he (or she) hasn't seen a foot surgery since medical school. Most transactional attorneys (those who advise on business structure and write contracts) never go to court because they spend every minute of their working life studying their narrow aspect of the law. Even 100 years ago the attorney that negotiated/wrote a contact would not be the same attorney that tried a lawsuit over breach of that contract for various ethical and procedural reasons that I won't go into here.
Click to expand...
I'm well aware of business law and how it's structured. If that were the case in this instance, then why would he even mention it. It wouldn't make any sense to. The only logical reason for stating it is as a marketing selling point to an uninformed potential client. IOW as complete B.S. but seeing as how it's a lawyer, that's a given.

Jaden
 
Hungarian

Hungarian

C'mon, man!
Silver Member
Logandgriff said:
I just posted the following in the "Where's Cocobolo Cowboy" thread but I want to repeat this here too:

Fatboy says: "I never take biz advice from a lawyer-that’s only 2nd worse than suicide."

I'm not sure about the suicide part but the part before the dash is very wise thinking. I've been a business lawyer for almost 50 years and one of the keys to my success was not giving business advice. Got a lot of client compliments about that.

IMO the business lawyer should figure out what the client wants and get it for him or her. If the law or the other side won't let you get there, figure out another way to get the client what he or she wants or as close to it as possible. Explain to the client what the situation is in clear and simple terms; the client does not want to be bothered with the details or legal b.s.

And return all client calls and emails within 15 minutes.
Click to expand...

I like Fatboy's advice. Lawyers have a tendency to, as they say, "queer the deal".
 
ShootingArts

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
alphadog said:
There is that , but the real irony is the poster a lawyer , is giving advice 😉
Click to expand...

Yeah, there is that!

I was watching Oh Brother Where Art Thou yet again a few weeks ago. Pete Hogwallop told them, too late when his brother sold them out, "Daddy always said never trust a Hogwallop!"

Hu
 
B

Banger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had a friend in college who was determined to become an attorney. He was as full of shit as a Christmas goose. Everyone in our circle of friends knew it, and we all just took it with a grain of salt. But he was still a likable guy, and I consider him a friend (though I have not had contact with him for years).

Anyway, he was an extremely motivated overachiever, and we all knew he would go places in life. He did become an attorney, joined a top notch law firm, and somehow got involved (as an attorney) with national politics. I've seen him on national news channels, more than once, speaking on behalf of one of the two, big political parties. He's written several books, and made a gazillion dollars.

If I ever need an attorney on my side, he's the man I would call. If nothing else, he could certainly hook me up with the right people. He is meticulous, knows how to wear his opponents down, and he knows how to win.

And I'm also sure he is just as full of shit today, as he was 40+ years ago. :ROFLMAO:
 
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T

TheBasics

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Howdy All;

Interesting conversation going on here. Here in the States we lump all the Legal
folks into one basket and spend time trying to sort out the correct one for our needs.
The Brits have an easy sorting method. (Cliff's Notes version), Barristers are the ones
that are primarily the ones in court doing all the talking. Whereas the Solicitors are
the ones dealing with the paperwork of contracts and such. Finding the correct (for
your needs), is the key.
I'm fairly lucky in not requiring the needs of a Lawyer for most of my day to day 'stuff'.
Which makes it difficult when I do require the special talents they have acquired.

hank
 
Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Experience it the best teacher.

Hiring the correct lawyer I believe is the most difficult part of being a biz man.

2nd is being a leader when you have lots of employees.

Those 2 skill sets on that order took me years to acquire. The rest is pretty easy.

Best
Fatboy😃
 
M

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The thing about having a lawyer and using him/her effectively is to remember:: It is never in the interest of the lawyer(s) to settle anything. The client is responsible for pushing <whatever> across the finish line.
 
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