Super billiards expo adding a Fargo limit for the amateur?

I'm surprised you guys are surprised about lack of scores in Fargo! :) That is a "long azz stretch!". The in-the-money results for all the prior years are nowhere to be found, not even on AZB. I was trying to find the year Josh won, and couldn't find the record.

The Expo site only has the prior year, 2022. Chris Bruner won in 2022, and his result is not listed on AZB. Come a few more months, his result will probably be erased from the Expo site.

www.azbilliards.com

Chris Bruner - People - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com
 
sjm said:
Not shocking, although I agree that the announcement should have come early.

I've often argued on the forum that 725 (or a bit higher) is about where pro speed begins in men's pool, so SBE is taking a pretty similar view.

That said, I do have sympathy for those in the 725 - 750 range, as most of them have pretty tough action in the pro event. It's nothing new, however, that it's more profitable to be a top amateur than a fringe pro.
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Yep, but the issue is that no matter what you do, there is always a group that is left out or is at the limit of being included. Even at 700 that is the very tip top of "amateur" ratings and all of us 500s are just fodder to them. The only real fair way is to divide up the field into ranges of say 100 Frago, or even 50, for even play. Cs in an event with Bs are outmatched, Bs in an event with As are outmatched, As in an event with Pros are outmatched. It's almost like 9 ball break rules, no matter what is tried, there are as many drawbacks as benefits.
 
skip100 said:
That's surprising that the scores for such a big event were not entered into Fargo.
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I'm sure there were a good-sized group of players that lobbied against it. I don't know how many times I have heard even local so-so players ask "is this being reported to Fargo" at tournaments so they can keep their so-so rating so-so LOL I mean what kind of low life avoids events that make results public? Yes, that was mostly a rhetorical question, we all know what kind LOL
 
Tom1234 said:
“That said, I do have empathy for those in the 725 - 750 range, as most of them have pretty tough action in the pro event. It's nothing new, however, that it's more profitable to be a top amateur than a fringe pro.”
The above quote from Stu points out the same problem APA has; though it appears Fargorate moves people up or down when the numbers indicate it. APA will keep someone a 7 hcp even after losing 20 or 30 straight matches to lower rated players. Please don’t start with sandbagging; you can’t help your team if you constantly lose on purpose. People get older, health issues crop up and their skill level drops. Their “Equalizer” system is flawed when it doesn’t take this situation into consideration. Rant over.
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The handicap in APA is based as much as innings and vodoo per rack/match as win/loss ratio. Also in some cases a player may be locked into a specific handicap. I actually don't agree with how often some leagues bounce player handicaps up and down, one week a guy is a 5, next he is a 6, five weeks later he is a 7, a week later a 6 again. Fargo at least has a pretty steady and hard to move skill level once you get enough matches in the system. Unless someone loses an arm or an eye the night before, moving a level a week is outlandish. Growing old and health issues take a long time to affect a game, in slow spurts. A 7 older player can take a year to slowly creep down to a 6 with normal age progression even with a new health issue. But again, in some cases leagues lock the skill level, say if you go to a national event as a 7.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I'm surprised you guys are surprised about lack of scores in Fargo! :) That is a "long azz stretch!". The in-the-money results for all the prior years are nowhere to be found, not even on AZB. I was trying to find the year Josh won, and couldn't find the record.

The Expo site only has the prior year, 2022. Chris Bruner won in 2022, and his result is not listed on AZB. Come a few more months, his result will probably be erased from the Expo site.

www.azbilliards.com

Chris Bruner - People - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com
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It’s probably been 15 years or so since Josh won it. I believe he also won the juniors there also a year or so before he won the open.
 
hang-the-9 said:
The handicap in APA is based as much as innings and vodoo per rack/match as win/loss ratio. Also in some cases a player may be locked into a specific handicap. I actually don't agree with how often some leagues bounce player handicaps up and down, one week a guy is a 5, next he is a 6, five weeks later he is a 7, a week later a 6 again. Fargo at least has a pretty steady and hard to move skill level once you get enough matches in the system. Unless someone loses an arm or an eye the night before, moving a level a week is outlandish. Growing old and health issues take a long time to affect a game, in slow spurts. A 7 older player can take a year to slowly creep down to a 6 with normal age progression even with a new health issue. But again, in some cases leagues lock the skill level, say if you go to a national event as a 7.
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Some health issues, such as eyesight or back problems can and will affect your ability pretty quickly. My eye doctor had to make compromises with my eyesight. My 30 year battle with lower back issues has gotten worse. These greatly compromise my ability to make a lot of shots. Anyone who doesn’t believe this just take a pair of sunglasses and rough up one side with sandpaper and bend over halfway before a shot. Bet you won’t make a long shot! My beef is with a LO who won’t even look at my last 6 months of losses to lower ranked players. I’ve lost 10 in a row averaging just 42 balls per match (9 ball). Nowhere near the 55 I would need to win. If the BS Equalizer system worked, I would not have to confront anyone about it.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I'm surprised you guys are surprised about lack of scores in Fargo! :) That is a "long azz stretch!". The in-the-money results for all the prior years are nowhere to be found, not even on AZB. I was trying to find the year Josh won, and couldn't find the record.

The Expo site only has the prior year, 2022. Chris Bruner won in 2022, and his result is not listed on AZB. Come a few more months, his result will probably be erased from the Expo site.

www.azbilliards.com

Chris Bruner - People - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com
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That's that Amish dude, right? I think he only plays by candlelight .
Lol
 
SBC said:
The reality is the better you get at pool, the less action you get. Far as gambling you end up giving so much weight....then you beat them and they want the world.
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It is pretty brutal what happens after you give up a big spot and you play well enough to win.
 
What about solid players with no Fargo rating? I know a few who haven’t played leagues in years, just play for money
 
better players generally win almost all the time giving big spots to lesser players. and cry all the time about it.
 
I believe the Expo is in a downward spiral and may only be around a few more years unless
Allan gets his sh*T together. One loss pro tournament sucks for the fans and the players. I
don't blame any of them if they don't come back! Shaw will win the Pro side and Mika will
win the Sr tournament.
 
rjb1168 said:
I believe the Expo is in a downward spiral and may only be around a few more years unless
Allan gets his sh*T together. One loss pro tournament sucks for the fans and the players. I
don't blame any of them if they don't come back! Shaw will win the Pro side and Mika will
win the Sr tournament.
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Bye Felecia....I'll be there til the last one then.
 
rjb1168 said:
I believe the Expo is in a downward spiral and may only be around a few more years unless
Allan gets his sh*T together. One loss pro tournament sucks for the fans and the players. I
don't blame any of them if they don't come back! Shaw will win the Pro side and Mika will
win the Sr tournament.
Click to expand...
This is geared towards amateurs, always seemed like the pros were an after thought. Buy cues and play on BB's. Good times
 
hang-the-9 said:
Yep, but the issue is that no matter what you do, there is always a group that is left out or is at the limit of being included. Even at 700 that is the very tip top of "amateur" ratings and all of us 500s are just fodder to them. The only real fair way is to divide up the field into ranges of say 100 Frago, or even 50, for even play. Cs in an event with Bs are outmatched, Bs in an event with As are outmatched, As in an event with Pros are outmatched. It's almost like 9 ball break rules, no matter what is tried, there are as many drawbacks as benefits.
Click to expand...
Why can't you form a committee of a few people from each region and go on "known ability?" The only way you stop this is when someone sneaks in, (there is a huge difference between sneaking in (you know the type of player) and someone being misrated. Committee members cannot play or have any monetary interest in a player. If they are found out to, then both are barred from any Fargo events.
 
tim913 said:
What about solid players with no Fargo rating? I know a few who haven’t played leagues in years, just play for money
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Those players are barred from any event with a first price over (insert dollar figure) If they want to steal from smaller tournaments $5 entry fees, then hard to stop that.
 
sjm said:
Not shocking, although I agree that the announcement should have come early.

I've often argued on the forum that 725 (or a bit higher) is about where pro speed begins in men's pool, so SBE is taking a pretty similar view.

That said, I do have sympathy for those in the 725 - 750 range, as most of them have pretty tough action in the pro event. It's nothing new, however, that it's more profitable to be a top amateur than a fringe pro.
Click to expand...
I think pro level starts about 710. That puts someone in the top 100 USA list
 
u12armresl said:
Why can't you form a committee of a few people from each region and go on "known ability?" The only way you stop this is when someone sneaks in, (there is a huge difference between sneaking in (you know the type of player) and someone being misrated. Committee members cannot play or have any monetary interest in a player. If they are found out to, then both are barred from any Fargo events.
Click to expand...

This one is not really for players hiding their ability, it's more for players that got too good to play with weaker players and events that have a limit on skill level. An open amateur tournament can be from 100-700 Fargo, but a 300 playing a 500 is in a much worse position than a 650 playing a 720.
 
Nowadays there's very few secrets in who plays well.

The guys winning sbe amateur open are by no means pros. Great players sure, but they are not even entry level pros.

When they win, Alan bans them from future amateur play, which is all that can be done.
 
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