Stroke with no acceleration versus stroke with acceleration

justnum

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Reviewing my personal journey in pool development, my stroke has gone from a wild motion of thrust to highly controlled burst strokes.

Masse shot clearly has acceleration, if your not sure blame Isaac Newton.

Level playing cue shots have more room for mathematical variety.

The three classifications of strokes are a negative (decelerating), positive (accelerating) and a zero acceleration.

Early players are unmeasured with positive stroke. Competition players demonstrate zero stroke and the talent revolves around stroke consistency and gameplay.

The negative stroke is great for practice and study. A negative stroke exercise is exactly what it sounds like if you lift weights.
 
justnum said:
Reviewing my personal journey in pool development, my stroke has gone from a wild motion of thrust to highly controlled burst strokes.

Masse shot clearly has acceleration, if your not sure blame Isaac Newton.

Level playing cue shots have more room for mathematical variety.

The three classifications of strokes are a negative (decelerating), positive (accelerating) and a zero acceleration.

Early players are unmeasured with positive stroke. Competition players demonstrate zero stroke and the talent revolves around stroke consistency and gameplay.

The negative stroke is great for practice and study. A negative stroke exercise is exactly what it sounds like if you lift weights.
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From the Fundamentals chapter of my book.

I personally believe in the continuous straight, horizontal and vertical stroke method, and not pausing. If the player interrupts the rhythm, he may lose the timing and tempo he was trying to achieve. Another very important part of the stroke is crescendo, (increasing speed), never decelerating. Just remember, whatever number of warm-up strokes you choose to take, embed that into your game.
 
ShortBusRuss said:
There's pretty much no such thing as a zero acceleration stroke. You are either accelerating, or decelerating. The human body just ain't made that way.
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Great point, there is constant acceleration and a wide variety of acceleration that is not constant.

A slower initial stroke is easier to control with a short burst before contact, then a stroke with a big wind up and challenging follow thru.

Zero acceleration is possible in an orbital gravitational field.
 
justnum said:
Great point, there is constant acceleration and a wide variety of acceleration that is not constant.

A slower initial stroke is easier to control with a short burst before contact, then a stroke with a big wind up and challenging follow thru.

Zero acceleration is possible in an orbital gravitational field.
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No it's not. A stroke works best (i.e. more consistent) when the acceleration is constant, peaking with the desired speed at contact. Rapid speed change in the middle of the stroke leads to all sorts of stroke flaws, mostly resulting in pushing the cue tip sideways.

And maybe it is just a poor use of words, but a "big wind up" has nothing whatsoever to do with stroke speed, as that is how far you pulled the cue back...
 
ShortBusRuss said:
No it's not. A stroke works best (i.e. more consistent) when the acceleration is constant, peaking with the desired speed at contact. Rapid speed change in the middle of the stroke leads to all sorts of stroke flaws, mostly resulting in pushing the cue tip sideways.

And maybe it is just a poor use of words, but a "big wind up" has nothing whatsoever to do with stroke speed, as that is how far you pulled the cue back...
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The mechanical advantage favors the stroke with the shorter burst as opposed to a longer stroke.

Consistency and accuracy is easier over shorter distances. The main idea is to delay the high acceleration phase of a stroke until the latest possible moment.
 
justnum said:
The mechanical advantage favors the stroke with the shorter burst as opposed to a longer stroke.

Consistency and accuracy is easier over shorter distances. The main idea is to delay the high acceleration phase of a stroke until the latest possible moment.
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But that's not what you said the first time.

A slower initial stroke is easier to control with a short burst before contact
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That explicitly says you are changing your stroke speed in a sudden manner. A stroke works best when the speed increases smoothly. Allen Hopkins notwithstanding.
 
ShortBusRuss said:
But that's not what you said the first time.



That explicitly says you are changing your stroke speed in a sudden manner. A stroke works best when the speed increases smoothly. Allen Hopkins notwithstanding.
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Now I am saying a slow stroke is a way to develop better form for power strokes. To practice building controlled power, start closer to the cueball and find how far back you can load your stroke.

Its a newbie stroke test. Can they stroke at super low speeds?
 
garczar said:
I'm now convinced that you have a personal pipeline to the best weed on the planet. Props bro.
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This is the mind on pool. It’s most likely better that Testors, Weldwood, or Sterno. Post #1 is a StrokeJob of a thread. It should be moved to Ask the Instructor. It does make for a good bar room discussion.
 
ShortBusRuss said:
There's pretty much no such thing as a zero acceleration stroke. You are either accelerating, or decelerating. The human body just ain't made that way.
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Actually, a study that some biomechanical researchers in Austria did at a Eurotour stop found that a large majority of shots were played with zero acceleration at impact -- the cue stick was coasting at the instant it hit the cue ball. That is the most efficient way to hit the ball, all else being equal.

However.... For the break shot the players mostly were still accelerating when the stick hit the ball. I don't think they concluded anything about the reason for this but I suspect that if max speed is your main goal, you want to keep accelerating for as long as possible.

Of course the cue stick must be accelerated at some point during the stroke or it won't be moving. Most shots require the stick to be moving.
 
GoldCrown said:
... most likely better that Testors, Weldwood, or Sterno....
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Maybe, but I doubt it's better than

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The cueball doesn't know CUE ACCELERATION. Speed, Force & Vector (Direction). Acceleration is a measurement of speed change over time. What happened before impact has ZERO effect on result.
 
Nick B said:
The cueball doesn't know CUE ACCELERATION. Speed, Force & Vector (Direction). Acceleration is a measurement of speed change over time. What happened before impact has ZERO effect on result.
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Agreed - although what happens before impact affects the speed at impact, only the speed at impact is “felt” by the CB. I think of the three “hit factors” as Angle/Spot/Speed (for the memorable acronym).

It’s also a myth that “accelerating through” the CB changes anything (contact time, spin, etc.).

pj
chgo
 
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I am sort of a newb, 5 TAP, 6 APA, but I still struggle with my stroke. I think my acceleration can get a bit quick and 'jabby', if that's understandable. I am wondering how many in here, accomplished players, use a pause after the backstroke and before the forward stroke? Practice tips are appreciated!
 
SeniorTom said:
I am sort of a newb, 5 TAP, 6 APA, but I still struggle with my stroke. I think my acceleration can get a bit quick and 'jabby', if that's understandable. I am wondering how many in here, accomplished players, use a pause after the backstroke and before the forward stroke? Practice tips are appreciated!
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I have tried, but I am not wired for it.

My pause is at address.

A pause at the end of the backstroke requires a different eye pattern, but it really helps you not short stroke a shot, and focus entirely on the delivery.

For the amount of work (at my age) that I would have to do to retool my stroke, timing and eye pattern, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.
 
The study (coasting at impact) aligns with what I teach. There is an overemphasis in modern pool teaching on consciously accelerating the stroke.

If the backstroke is long enough for the upcoming shot and the forward stroke is smooth, not hurried with hand wiggling, conscious acceleration, etc. everything is good as far as speed and timing.

On draw strokes, it still after all this time blows my mind that people who struggle with draw listen to "advice" like "you've got to really accelerate that cue through the draw stroke!" when cue ball back spin must fight against an overly speedy, hard hit cue ball.
 
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