Should All Skill Levels Have an Equal Chance to Win a Weekly 9-Ball Handicapped Tournament?

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

If I’m a skill level 3 in a handicapped tournament with high levels I’m scwhacking at the 9 ball all night long, every chance I get. That’s my advice for low levels in one of those tournaments. If nothing else you might make a high level a bit nervous that way. Especially if one goes in for you.

 

[fastone371]

What about the 2 and outers in this "participation event"? Do they then get a special event? Do the special events stop when everybody has won a tournament? Where does it end?

That's TBD. It doesn't have to be a weekly tournament. We have tournaments up here that you cant shoot in unless you have participated in at least 4 other tournaments during the season at the same pool hall. .

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Hey I have a little thought to throw in here also. If you are in a bigger APA area that is another reason lower skilled players might be losing in tournaments. In 9ball they’re not used to playing for the nine only for the balls.

 

[DeadStick]

This is how my local room in Austin does weekly tournaments with no handicaps. They're played on 10 of the room's 18 Diamond Pro-Am 9-footers. Field's always full, with several 700+ guys in the mix. The Break Contest is breaking and trying to run a full rack of 15 balls in rotation. The pot builds up and was north of $6,000 last week. You get one entry ticket each tournament you enter, and can buy more for $20 ea iirc:

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So tonight I’m at Skinnys. Break contest pot is up to $8500. I was wrong about ticket prices, they’re $5 for one, $20 for 5. So I’ve got 6 chances here in 15 min or so.

Wonder what the odds are of a B&R of 15 ball rotation. Guessing 2% for me.

 

[Hungarian]

No. How will new players get better unless they are beat on?

 

[tomatoshooter]

So tonight I’m at Skinnys. Break contest pot is up to $8500. I was wrong about ticket prices, they’re $5 for one, $20 for 5. So I’ve got 6 chances here in 15 min or so.

Wonder what the odds are of a B&R of 15 ball rotation. Guessing 2% for me.

Are they drawing the tickets like a raffle, or do you know you are shooting?

 

[DeadStick]

So tonight I’m at Skinnys. Break contest pot is up to $8500. I was wrong about ticket prices, they’re $5 for one, $20 for 5. So I’ve got 6 chances here in 15 min or so.

Wonder what the odds are of a B&R of 15 ball rotation. Guessing 2% for me.

Well fuck. They only draw one ticket. Here’s the lucky girl’s attempt:

 

[tomatoshooter]

Well fuck. They only draw one ticket. Here’s the lucky girl’s attempt:

Of all the times to break dry.

 

[Bryan13]

if every single person does not have an equal chance than the handicap is not fair. simple as that.

if the goal is to deceive them in thinking they have a real chance so they keep coming back than thats a different story.

What about the players who have put more time and effort into playing better? How is it fair for players who do not spend time improving their game to show up and have a “fair” chance to win? Tournaments are for competition. If you swing the handicap to far to make every single player have a fair chance to win, then that in it self is not fair. Those who spend more time, work harder, and those who are talented should have an advantage naturally. Those who do not spend the time to get better, or have no talent should get beat on until they get better.

If the goal is just to win money then go to the casino. The strong should not be punished to appease the weak!

 

[mnorwood]

So you turn 50 and your game is suffering before you quit ask yourself the following questions: 1. Do you have low testosterone? The answer is probably yes. 2. Do you have sleep apnia: if you do that causes many problems. 3. How much do you drink? Consider quitting. 4. Do you exercise at all. If you don’t you should start. 5. Is your blood sugar out of wack? If you are overweight you probably are or close to being a diabetic. I would be willing to bet if you improve your health your game will follow and maybe be better than it was before. I know men who played their best pool in their 60s.

 

[alphadog]

From a player who has played in a few of our weekly tournaments and had to give up a lot of weight - thanks

Yeah but BB ain't your run of the mill pool playing bike riding nut job.

 

[alphadog]

It takes work but if you have say 11 weekly trnmnts and keep point totals 1 point per win and then on the 12th week have a trnmnt for say the top 16 with a bigger prize fund it can be a great deal.
Assign limited handicaps like max 6/2 and have low handicaps the 2-3-4 play races to their handicap.
Have previous 1st and 2nd place start in the losers bracket after the 1st week. If they place first or 2nd twice they sit out a week or 2.

 

[maha]

by making the game fair with handicaps. and that is what they are for, it makes things equal. has nothing to do with who put in the most hard work in the past.
but in the present with a fair system the person who shoots better than normal /excels that day, is the one who wins. or the one who can outwit his opponent. not the one who wins even if he doesn't play his best game.

 

[ChrisinNC]

by making the game fair with handicaps. and that is what they are for, it makes things equal. has nothing to do with who put in the most hard work in the past.
but in the present with a fair system the person who shoots better than normal /excels that day, is the one who wins. or the one who can outwit his opponent. not the one who wins even if he doesn't play his best game.

We all know if a lower skilled player wins a handicapped tournament getting a generous spot against more than one strong player on their way through the draw, more than likely they’ve had it handed to them with a number of late game gifts.

Whenever I’ve lost one of these matches to a significantly lower skilled player, virtually every time I feel like I did not deserve to win, due to some untimely mistakes. In a fairly handicapped tournament, that’s how it should be.

It happened to me this past week in the finals. My opponent never even had to make a 9 ball. In one game I made the 9 and somehow scratched and in the last game I choked on an easy 9 and hung it in the pocket. Those may have been the only 2 mistakes I made in 6 games, but they cost me. I clearly did not deserve to win.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

The more I read through this the more I want to be an entrepreneur in the hall. If all those 3’s and 4’s playing tournaments would play me a race to 7 weekly for $20-40 I’ll help them shoot better. I’ll call it lessons to lighten the mood. Seriously. They can ask me questions during, or if they want me to explain what im doing while playing like poolmanis does on his vids no problem. And we could address some things in between racks if needed. If they win they keep the money obviously.

You didn’t used to be able to ask many of the really good or great players for much assistance without paying 20-30 years ago. Even paying. You had to watch and learn without explanation.

Now this APA league stuff has the up and comers thinking other players are there to assist them because the highs on their teams help for free. Well I hate to break it to you but that 7 helping you isn’t always giving you the best help, and a lot of us don’t want to help you get better. You need to put in the effort if you want to get better not just have it handed to you. And no that carbon fiber shaft ain’t helping you either. You might as well pick up a broom with that stance. See id be blunt and to the point if that’s what they weee paying for!

 

[maha]

thats just my point chris. your lower skilled players still dont have much of a chance even with the handicap you give therm. they need more.

whats so bad about a low skilled player winning or coming in close in a handicapped tournament. that is good for all involved.
with a fair handicap it should happen regularly. and give them reason to come back to play in them and practice as well.

 

[23DenaliBDE]

thats just my point chris. your lower skilled players still dont have much of a chance even with the handicap you give therm. they need more.

whats so bad about a low skilled player winning or coming in close in a handicapped tournament. that is good for all involved.
with a fair handicap it should happen regularly. and give them reason to come back to play in them and practice as well.

Handing me a participation trophy and , even worse, calling it a win, does not give me a reason to come back

 

[rexus31]

Why does everything have to be “fair”? I’ve got an idea. In MLB, pitchers cannot exceed a certain MPH commensurate with the batter’s batting average and the batter gets 4 strikes vs 3. Or in football, the underdog gets 5 downs instead of 4. I’m just not a fan of hand outs. I’ve played in my fair share of handicapped events primarily because that’s all there is. I usually give weight, which I can outrun most of the time. When I can’t, no big deal. I’ve been given weight a couple times and “won”. I never felt good about those instances and don’t really consider it a win. It’s charity.

 

[soyale]

Why does everything have to be “fair”? I’ve got an idea. In MLB, pitchers cannot exceed a certain MPH commensurate with the batter’s batting average and the batter gets 4 strikes vs 3. Or in football, the underdog gets 5 downs instead of 4. I’m just not a fan of hand outs. I’ve played in my fair share of handicapped events primarily because that’s all there is. I usually give weight, which I can outrun most of the time. When I can’t, no big deal. I’ve been given weight a couple times and “won”. I never felt good about those instances and don’t really consider it a win. It’s charity.

I’m not besmirching your position, as i have no dog in this race, but your MLB/NFL comparison isn't quite accurate. Its not like there is handicapping in any of our “pro” events.

what you are suggesting, in comparison to handicapped tourneys, would be more like if the NFL players were on the same field as a high school team. not saying the HSers should get 5 downs instead of 4, but you have to think that game wouldn’t be very interesting and the high schoolers might not want to play again.

 

[rexus31]

I’m not besmirching your position, as i have no dog in this race, but your MLB/NFL comparison isn't quite accurate. Its not like there is handicapping in any of our “pro” events.

what you are suggesting, in comparison to handicapped tourneys, would be more like if the NFL players were on the same field as a high school team. not saying the HSers should get 5 downs instead of 4, but you have to think that game wouldn’t be very interesting and the high schoolers might not want to play again.

Okay. Amateur athletics. That’s even better as there are more lopsided matchups at the collegiate level. Everything needs to be fair, doesn’t it?