I feel your pain.
There are one or two guys (just one really) whose posts I just scroll past without reading. As soon as I see their avatar it's a no go.
Lou Figueroa
Super Touchy Subject Men vs.Women in Pool
- Thread starter 1pocketguru
- Start date
I feel your pain.
There are one or two guys (just one really) whose posts I just scroll past without reading. As soon as I see their avatar it's a no go.
Lou Figueroa
Its seems that most of us here have him blocked, his comments are rarely ever replied to. Of course it could also be because most of his comments are so far out in left field or maybe its because they are true fiction.
i don't think it's 100 points? or is siming chen still missing due to inactivity? she is at 790 something
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
I don’t know. Fjk made a good point though with that article. Women aren’t as heavy as guys. Their break isn’t as strong. How many 105lb women could break with the best of em? Even an avg 120lb female. Their break isn’t strong enough. Plus an avg lady isn’t as tall as a man. They don’t even get the assistance of added leverage like a 6’3” slim like a stick dude will.
I’m always sitting between 180 and 200 and I put a lot of weight behind the break. My break was still strong at 150. But I’ve never seen a guy at 120lb with a monster break. Have you? Even the 650 I play all the time. Given he is 70(doesn’t look or act it), but he is only about 130lbs wet and even complains he just can’t get enough into it. Maybe that’s why some of those pro women have been adding some weight………
Plus Ive almost never seen a female gambling where I play. Maybe for small change, but nothing too serious. There are a few that shoot strong. Tournaments-sure. They just aren’t into the gamble.
With that being said. A weaker break in 9 ball and no 3 point behind headstring they should play just as good as the guys. I was watching a ladies Predator tournament(no 3 point). The ladies’ breaks had such nice spreads it almost looked like they were cheating. Almost all the balls in bottom 3/4 of table.
All in all. I guess I’d say if guys had to satisfy the 3 point rule behind headstring and girls didn’t, that would be an even match. I’m going with that because it might only be 1-10 times but a guy with a harder break automatically has a better chance of pocketing one on the break. So the 3 point would nullify that exponent. If the women still lost a majority of the time. Well then. Simply put. They arent as good as men.
I’m always sitting between 180 and 200 and I put a lot of weight behind the break. My break was still strong at 150. But I’ve never seen a guy at 120lb with a monster break. Have you? Even the 650 I play all the time. Given he is 70(doesn’t look or act it), but he is only about 130lbs wet and even complains he just can’t get enough into it. Maybe that’s why some of those pro women have been adding some weight………
Plus Ive almost never seen a female gambling where I play. Maybe for small change, but nothing too serious. There are a few that shoot strong. Tournaments-sure. They just aren’t into the gamble.
With that being said. A weaker break in 9 ball and no 3 point behind headstring they should play just as good as the guys. I was watching a ladies Predator tournament(no 3 point). The ladies’ breaks had such nice spreads it almost looked like they were cheating. Almost all the balls in bottom 3/4 of table.
All in all. I guess I’d say if guys had to satisfy the 3 point rule behind headstring and girls didn’t, that would be an even match. I’m going with that because it might only be 1-10 times but a guy with a harder break automatically has a better chance of pocketing one on the break. So the 3 point would nullify that exponent. If the women still lost a majority of the time. Well then. Simply put. They arent as good as men.
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Yes, touchy subject, but two women play at close to 800 speed, namely Han Yu and Siming Chen, the two Chinese superstars. The 51st rate player, based on Fargo, also carries an 800 Fargo, though, so they're not anywhere near the top of the heap.
A Gorst or a Filler would demolish them in a race of any real length. I cannot imagine either of the Chinese superstars winning a race to 15 against either and I'd say neither is capable of reaching the final day of a Matchroom major.
That said, the women have proven they can play at men's world class level and that's something to celebrate. The women have closed the gap.
I'm not convinced that if as many women played pool as men and if they practiced as hard as men, they'd catch the men as cueists, but there's little doubt in my mind that in that scenario. five of the world's top 25 might be women.
I'm enjoying the rise in quality of women's pool and believe the women will continue to produce great things over the glorious green felt.
A Gorst or a Filler would demolish them in a race of any real length. I cannot imagine either of the Chinese superstars winning a race to 15 against either and I'd say neither is capable of reaching the final day of a Matchroom major.
That said, the women have proven they can play at men's world class level and that's something to celebrate. The women have closed the gap.
I'm not convinced that if as many women played pool as men and if they practiced as hard as men, they'd catch the men as cueists, but there's little doubt in my mind that in that scenario. five of the world's top 25 might be women.
I'm enjoying the rise in quality of women's pool and believe the women will continue to produce great things over the glorious green felt.
in the men v women in pool discussions, rarely do I see the history of men and women being discussed
thankfully things are different now, but for a long, long time, in multiple ways women were discouraged from playing pool
at the same time, men were actually encouraged to spend time on tables, in pool halls and bars from then to now
no doubt there are also physiological etc. reasons to parse, but is it really any wonder why women are so behind in pool?
it seems the gap has generally lessened, while both male and female players have improved- I think this will continue
but unless we're to completely ignore history, I'm not surprised at *how* wide the skill gap is in pool, men v women
thankfully things are different now, but for a long, long time, in multiple ways women were discouraged from playing pool
at the same time, men were actually encouraged to spend time on tables, in pool halls and bars from then to now
no doubt there are also physiological etc. reasons to parse, but is it really any wonder why women are so behind in pool?
it seems the gap has generally lessened, while both male and female players have improved- I think this will continue
but unless we're to completely ignore history, I'm not surprised at *how* wide the skill gap is in pool, men v women
snookered_again
Well-known member
I'd just say let them play... personally I enjoy watching ;-)
Agreed, she's a very talented player.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Last I checked avg pro male break was 20mph+. I’d like to see you break 20mph as most my guy friends cant. They avg 16-18 at 150+ lbs. I just looked it up. According to Google. Avg male pro break is 4 mph higher than avg pro female. That’s a big gap. That means males are breaking 20% harder than females. That could in turn very well be the reason for the skill difference between men and women.
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Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
That wasn’t a knock on you Leigh. I’m just addressing the fact of break speed. If 4mph slower was a better break don’t you think the professional men would be breaking that speed? Although the 24mph Google lists does seem kind of high. Acoording to predator break speed app I break around 21 and I have the hardest break in the hall I frequent with a lot of 600+’s in there. Fastest I was ever able to register was like 24.75mph putting everything I had into it. It came up 16-18 with other players. Some hit 20 trying hard. Maybe the app isn’t perfect but it gives you a good approximation of speed difference between players.
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You make me think of Kung Fu and man vs women's forward punching arm speed.
You'd think speed would be nearly equal man/woman.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Nah. Men naturally have more quick twitch muscle fibers. It takes muscle to push the cue forward. If it didn’t you’d be able to build velocity swinging the cue back and forth without effort. And with women being naturally shorter they can’t use as much hip in their breaks a lot of times. Or bend there knees as much to build force like their taller counterparts. So I’m saying there is a physical limitation in breaking for a lot of girls.
Supposedly you don’t need strength to throw a baseball faster. But the longer the arm throwing, the longer the windup allowing more time to build force before releasing. A stronger player with the same flexibility and arm length should technically have more potential to throw faster because the extra muscle allows them to gain momentum quicker.
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This sums it up so well.
My position on this subject has been badly misconstrued in the past. I've been labeled misogynistic and uneducated, but yet I persist because I see what lies around the corner, AND I actually want what's best for women as I'm surrounded by quite a few of them that I care about
So what lies around the corner? Fargo Rated gender neutral tourneys and only that!
Mike Page is clearly in the camp that there's no reason that women can't play equally with men if given equal access to the game. If this view becomes the majority one and we proceed to create only Fargo rated events, what will that do to the overall participation of women? I think it would dramatically reduce it in the long run.
If my view is right, that men have say -- on average a 50 point Fargo advantage over women (could be more or less), how would our female players feel about having to compete against their male Fargo equals who HAVE NOT had to work as hard at the game as they have? If we were to examine the road that has been traveled for a 650 female player vs a 650 male player -- I think the difference in the amount of dedication to the game would be stark. A 650 female is more times than not, a lifer. One that's taken the game super serious, practiced diligently, with probably close to text book fundamentals. Basically, she's squeezed all the juice out of her game that she could. Meanwhile, many of the 650 males have been part-timers who have just sort of played their way to 650. The reward for the 650 women is they are forced to play with the men. I much prefer they get to double-dip and play with the men when they so choose.
Anyway, I really hope we don't go down the road of eliminating women's pool but I don't think doing exactly that is out of the realm of possibility.
I've avoided these discussions but what the heck.
I think its just a numbers game. So few women get interested in the game. The talented women do other things.
It's not about a weaker sex. It's about so few women get hooked on these games.
If there were 50million women playing/competing in pool in the USA, I'm sure women would be competing with men worldwide.
So a Finnish Woman 6'4'' 195 lbs could not break as well as Alex Pagulayan?
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
She probably could, but she is way bigger than Alex and not an avg sized lady!
If we put a male that is the same height as an avg woman. On top of muscle, a 5’4” man is usually going to have longer arms than a 5’”4” lady. So more potential to build power at the same height also.
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dammit, my post disappeared. anyway, here's stalevs break:
he is fairly short and skinny. it's about fast muscle fibers. leverage is important too, but the muscle fibers are, as mentioned above, an obvious gender difference.
he is fairly short and skinny. it's about fast muscle fibers. leverage is important too, but the muscle fibers are, as mentioned above, an obvious gender difference.