Watched the Euro 9b today and saw a 16yr old kid, Felix Vogel from Ger., almost snap-off the event. Was beaten in the final by Pole Daniel Maciol(a ripe old 23 himself). A LOT of good young big table players in Europe. The US may never win another Mosconi based on what i'm seeing.
Another Euro Phenom...........
- Thread starter garczar
- Start date
i watched the QF i think it was. mark mägi vs maciol, great match. they make those tables look really soft.
I wish they'd play longer sets with winner-break. Like to see one of these kids get in stroke and run big packages.
I still can't figure out why USA players stink in comparison. Corey's generation was the last that we had MORE than one top guy on the world level. Its been 25 years since he became a top player.
I feel like there is more pool being played now in the USA than in the past 15 years.
I feel like there is more pool being played now in the USA than in the past 15 years.
Almost all rotation is on the barbox. That's the issue.
I think it is far more about attitude. In Europe the motivation seems to be pride of improvement and achievement in your sport. In the US it seems to be whether you can steal from the newbie who doesn't know you can play. Or how well you can game the league system.
There's also the matter that in some countries, the government gives significant support to the extent of having pool in schools.
I wonder if it's more about getting drunk and having fun, rather than getting hooked on the game? IDK...
Back to the topic:
Felix Vogel (age 16) is rated 732/1412
Daniel Maciol (age 23) is rated 807/6887
I wonder if Felix will be 800 in one year's time.
Felix Vogel (age 16) is rated 732/1412
Daniel Maciol (age 23) is rated 807/6887
I wonder if Felix will be 800 in one year's time.
I doubt anybody has ever gone from the 730s to 800 in a year. I haven't seen Vogel play, but 732 is barely pro these days, so for him to become a World Class Pro in a year would be hard to imagine. Nonetheless, wishing him every possible success.
I think getting to 800 by the time he's 21 would be a more realistic goal for him to set.
I sure wish the FargoRate app allowed analyses just like the stock market. Type in a few names, select a time period, and graph the comparisons. There could even be an S&P 500 pool player trend line, or top 10 trend line, etc. So many possibilities, and the raw data is all there (I assume past data is archived somewhere).
I’m of the opinion *if* a player will get to 800 level it will happen very young. 18-19 years old. And it will happen quickly. They will go from local hero one year, to national hero the next 1 or 2 years.
Felix being 16 has a couple more years to level out on his shot making and position. Strategy might continue to improve some after that.
Sadly I believe this has a lot to do with our players.
Fortunately I live in N.C. and bar boxes are quite unpopular here. None of the rooms around Raleigh have any that I know of.
Americans must include 14.1 in their play.
Wouldn't hurt but its not necessary to play good rotation.
I agree if it happens it will happen soon. It's impossible to predict who will keep improving in leaps and bounds and who will quickly level off.
Many may not know, but Dennis Hatch was holding his own with anyone at 15-16 years old. He leveled off quickly.
Guys are always in your ear about don't take this, don't shoot that, play the game yada yada. Not many have the options to survive this.
How much pool is played by those 10-18 years old? How much pool do 10-18 year olds have access to? The bar may well be a much bigger problem than the bar table as far as development
I've been able to play amateur level competition in both the us and eu now.
The differences in Europe (least in the countries I've played in now, are vast when compared to what we all know the US to be like.
Everyone freely shares knowledge and looks to improve each other, maybe because gambling isn't as prevalent, the culture at each pool hall is more of a family that really care about each other both on and off the table, most people stop by for at least an hour or two everyday, we go to dinners together, hell few of the guys even came to the hospital with me for a recent surgery to make sure there weren't any miscommunications because of language barriers. Leagues and tournaments arent handicap at all, people go with the idea of doing better than last week, not the idea of needing a fair chance to win.
Also most places have membership rates that let you have free table time, especially out of the busiest hours. Significant less drinking during league play, also bar boxes are pretty rare so everything is on 9ft. Everything is all ball fouls, there isn't any cheating and ive never heard of or see anyone not call it on themselves, even if it's something as simple as a sweater touching a ball when leaning over the rail, no matter how critical or important the game is. Kids are also allowed into the pool halls, regardless if they serve alcohol or not, and people always take the time to teach them a bit. Lessons are moderately priced, I can go take lessons with a 8x mosconi cup player for 35 an hour. That's something that a parent can afford to buy their kid a few of or in Germany eckert will give you 2 hours of lessons and a an hour of play, for around 100 a month, try to find that in the us, how many parents can afford to pay someone 100-200 an hour for lessons.
Recently I started a 14.1 league in my new city, and we have had 30+ people sign up, spending money on table time, with no prizes beyond a piece of taom chalk for the winner of the league, division, and high run. It's just a general attitude of wanting to improve and see everyone else improve.
The differences in Europe (least in the countries I've played in now, are vast when compared to what we all know the US to be like.
Everyone freely shares knowledge and looks to improve each other, maybe because gambling isn't as prevalent, the culture at each pool hall is more of a family that really care about each other both on and off the table, most people stop by for at least an hour or two everyday, we go to dinners together, hell few of the guys even came to the hospital with me for a recent surgery to make sure there weren't any miscommunications because of language barriers. Leagues and tournaments arent handicap at all, people go with the idea of doing better than last week, not the idea of needing a fair chance to win.
Also most places have membership rates that let you have free table time, especially out of the busiest hours. Significant less drinking during league play, also bar boxes are pretty rare so everything is on 9ft. Everything is all ball fouls, there isn't any cheating and ive never heard of or see anyone not call it on themselves, even if it's something as simple as a sweater touching a ball when leaning over the rail, no matter how critical or important the game is. Kids are also allowed into the pool halls, regardless if they serve alcohol or not, and people always take the time to teach them a bit. Lessons are moderately priced, I can go take lessons with a 8x mosconi cup player for 35 an hour. That's something that a parent can afford to buy their kid a few of or in Germany eckert will give you 2 hours of lessons and a an hour of play, for around 100 a month, try to find that in the us, how many parents can afford to pay someone 100-200 an hour for lessons.
Recently I started a 14.1 league in my new city, and we have had 30+ people sign up, spending money on table time, with no prizes beyond a piece of taom chalk for the winner of the league, division, and high run. It's just a general attitude of wanting to improve and see everyone else improve.
This is exactly what I see, even in places with no government money.
This sounds like their system of high taxes floating everyone's boat is working better than our system of strangling *.gov spending at every turn. It also sounds like their children are better adapted to the stresses and strains of being adults.
Because everyone's boat is floated, there is actually MORE disposable income than in our system.....
Good luck over there.
where specifically in the US and Europe have you lived/played pool?