Except CB/OB speed/spin are both parts of the "specific outcome" I'm talking about.
pj
chgo
BHE vs FHE
- Thread starter slach
- Start date
pj
chgo
Thank you for the details. Both strokes are taken to the same spot of the cue ball for english, both strokes push the cue ball in different directions to start, meaning one is less adjustment from the aim target than the other.
I would think so just based on your screenname. I'm jokin' with you but you're right.
You are right, but I also understand PJ's point, however, he's not stopping to consider the two players use two different targets on the OB. Simple.
Great, and I bet you'd also agree, the adjustment is less than the old "pivot and pray" english that some are such fans of, they won't listen to any alternative radio stations.
Ok.....with the added OB (travel) variable added.......that I can absolutely agree with
You are correct, but only in context, since we're aligned on different aim targets also, while still both scoring the shot.
For a comparable example, I can have two balls with their lines-of-center on a corner pocket line. I can hit a dead straight stop shot, or if there's a third, interfering ball, hit a semi-masse to go around the interference and still score the ball.
When will Mr. integrity be joining the conversation?
A better question might be when are you going to stop putting forth ridiculous assertions that nobody believes.
Are you planning to turn this into another "Why did Jose hit the nine this way" thread
That subject was beat to death years ago.
It's actually too much not information.
BHE is really is not difficult but extremely simple. If you set your bridge hand down in the proper position to start with, then you never have to move your bridge hand when applying right, left, or center.
Without moving your bridge hand, palm or fingers, you just pivot the tip of the cue to exactly where you need to hit it on the cue ball, which then automatically shifts / pivots the butt of the cue. But then after that, it is still a straight back and straight through stroke, no different than FHE.
There's been a lot of discourse since I last opened this thread. So much so, that I'm not going to bother quoting the issues I have with the swooping BHE I was originally trying to discuss. Rather, I'll just recant.
I have zero problem with the notion of using BHE. I personally think that if used to generate any notable amount of English. You run the risk of breaking down your mechanics. IMO, there's more value in keeping your grip arm mechanics identical regardless of desired English. This includes wrist movement. To produce the swooping BHE mentioned earlier.
That said, the swooping BHE cheerleader in this thread. Is leading us to believe that the dynamic wrist movement is so tiny that it's almost imperceivable. This reeks of the "twist of something" sales pitch, we've endured in the past.
So although nearly any method of stroking the cue can be taught and practiced to usefulness. The simplest and least dynamic is always the best approach. Why a player would risk breaking down the very thing ALL players struggle to master, (mechanics) with such a haphazard method is beyond me.
Too each their own I suppose. Me, I'll continue to worry about shape and pace. Anyone that wants to endure struggling unnecessarily with their grip arm with BHE and especially the swooping version can have it.
Enjoy
I have zero problem with the notion of using BHE. I personally think that if used to generate any notable amount of English. You run the risk of breaking down your mechanics. IMO, there's more value in keeping your grip arm mechanics identical regardless of desired English. This includes wrist movement. To produce the swooping BHE mentioned earlier.
That said, the swooping BHE cheerleader in this thread. Is leading us to believe that the dynamic wrist movement is so tiny that it's almost imperceivable. This reeks of the "twist of something" sales pitch, we've endured in the past.
So although nearly any method of stroking the cue can be taught and practiced to usefulness. The simplest and least dynamic is always the best approach. Why a player would risk breaking down the very thing ALL players struggle to master, (mechanics) with such a haphazard method is beyond me.
Too each their own I suppose. Me, I'll continue to worry about shape and pace. Anyone that wants to endure struggling unnecessarily with their grip arm with BHE and especially the swooping version can have it.
Enjoy
So when you wrote, "Please name a pro you teach, so we can watch and learn," you were lying, and weren't seeking to learn anything.
That's a shame.
It does. Two shooters can strike a cue ball with two different cue ball paths, both of which can pocket a ball, where you claimed (with no OB in the diagram!) I'd miss and you'd make the ball. That's presumptuous, there could be a pocket hanger two inches off the CB.
Unfortunately, many people struggle to make shots with traditional english, so many pros use BHE instead, meaning I make but you miss the ball.
Please have the last word between the two of us, as I've left instructions and diagrams for those who want to learn BHE via supination or pronation during the stroke.
I don't know what the "twist of something" sales pitch is, although I'm curious.
It's a tiny supination or pronation (or any other movement of choice) to add 1.65 mm of english off the vertical axis.
I sometimes theorize out loud on AZ but with students, I use geometry, anatomy and physics only, whether billiards or other stick-and-ball sports.
But you ask a good question, a reasonable question, inside "The simplest and least dynamic is always the best approach. Why a player would risk breaking down the very thing ALL players struggle to master, (mechanics) with such a haphazard method is beyond me."
My answer is because I've read or heard countless player and teacher statements that warn about using too much english, english at all if the CB-OB or OB-pocket distance is greater than a diamond or two, etc. Yet the pros use english on many long shots, and I know from experience students can learn pro techniques. One such pro technique is BHE.
You can even add Occam's to BHE by using it on a shot with very little english and/or presetting the hand position for the stroke.
Thank you.
If you've paid attention to the forum regarding aiming/shooting practices with the last couple of years. Then you'd be well aware of the "touch of inside" sales pitch and subsequent debate.
The professional practitioner leading that charge. Claimed that the amount of "inside" English produced on the CB was so minor it couldn't be described as English in the traditional sense, but more of a "twist". Equaling less than a rotation of the CB if memory serves.
If that is reality then the questions is, why bother.
However there is a tangible benefit of purposly cueing off CB center. Not sure if thats the case with swooping BHE.
Id say they are players just struggling with the CB physics over distances (aka: casual players) and/or bad teachers.
if an instructor cant explain and teach the CB dynamics with applied english over distance. Then they should return whatever certificate they are issued. If theres such a thing.
You tack on BHE to end of the above quote but dont address the elephant in the room. BHE is a great method for introducing cueing error. Sure that can be practiced around, I suppose, but it doesnt alter the fact you dont address. FHE is easier and doesn't effect mechanics.
Why is it easier....? ..because you have a direct visual reference to not only your adjust tool (FH) but also the subsequent adjustment (tip). ...and again, you have the benefit of utilizing idnetical mechanics
What the hell does this mean...?...lol. Name dropping Occam's Razor along side something additionally complicated doesn’t somehow make it less complicated. If anything Occam is an argument against BHE...lol
I guess Tommy won't be verifying your claim that he pays you for lessons. That's a shame.