BHE vs FHE

S

slach

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was trying to visualize the effects of BHE vs FHE so I made this somewhat scale drawing. With FHE the bridge was moved and the butt unmoved to hit a spot on the cue ball about 1/2" off center. For BHE the bridge stayed the same and the butt was moved over so the same spot on the cue ball was hit. The bridge length is about 10" in both cases, the cue about 60" long.

Not sure what I learned from this other than BHE hits the cue ball at more of an angle and probably imparts more spin, so you can adjust less (hit closer to center) with BHE to get a similar spin on the cue ball. And since you can hit closer to center with BHE the squirt is probably less. Any other interpretations of this?
FHE BHE.jpg
 

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My way of using side is sort of BHE or FHE, dunno which, I always keep the cue on the same point in my chin. Then I just need to learn the proper adjustments for various speed/spin/elevation combinations and adjust my aim while standing accordingly, and don't have to think about the backhand at all while down. So side or not, same point on the chin, not sure if this is BHE or FHE.
 
slach said:
....snip.... Any other interpretations of this?
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Yes, your drawing is correct but not your interpretation. As your drawing shows, the stick line is completely different in both cases, even though the point on the CB is the same. Thus, the shot is NOT the same. Not even close to the same.

It makes zero difference what method is used to "aim". But at the end of the day, and however you get there, there is only one "stick angle" + "stroke speed" + "tip position", that will work for any given shot (including intended CB position).
 
Zerksies said:
BHE just adds another complex layer to something that shouldn't be complex.
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If the pivot point is close to your bridge, BHE can simplify aiming by showing you the "swerveless" angle from which you can adjust for swerve if needed. It's a useful "starting" alignment for that cue.

pj
chgo
 
Quesports said:
Swerveless angle?
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The cue angle that accurately adjusts for squirt when there's no swerve - you can get it by pivoting at the cue's squirt pivot point.

I wonder if marking the pivot point on the shaft could be helpful. It could show where to bridge/pivot for BHE and be a reference for swerve correction (how far the mark is off the shot line).

pj
chgo
 
easy-e said:
I kind of agree. I think it's something most players use without thinking about it. We're just putting a name to it. Do any of today's champions even consider this type of stuff when they get down on the ball? I'll bet it never enters their heads.
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most are just natural talents and probably do this without thinking. I think this BHE is just a plot to sell lessons
 
Zerksies said:
I think this BHE is just a plot to sell lessons
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lol... I love it and agree.

Unless I'm missing something. Pure BHE will skew your mechanics and beg for break downs in your stroke. Now if you pivot your entire body but keep your bridge hand still. This would manifest BHE adjustment but keep your mechanics in line. I think a distinction needs to be made between the methods.

I will make body pivoting adjustments if I fell off the aim line too much while getting down on the shot. This is just a lazy fix, and works fine within limits. The trick is to not push those limits to the point of risking mechanical breakdown.

The same amount of tip adjustment requires more movement in terms of BHE vs FHE. This is just a function of bridge hand location.
 
Zerksies said:
I think this BHE is just a plot to sell lessons
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As you can see by my UAS link below....I do agree for some things in pool are guys just trying to sell lessons....I don't agree for BHE.

BHE/FHE is a method that gives a more predictable/consistent feedback.....and for quite a few shots with BHE there is actually no thought process necessary once you learn the process.........You can set up for no English and simply err to one side or the other to apply spin.....The BHE is self correcting.....and if you find the pivot point of a particular shaft and then use that bridge length as your standard bridge length.....as long is you keep your bridge hand stable......it effectively widens your margin of stroke error.......You may not get the desired shape...but you are still at the table.

Of course there are those that subscribe to the HAMB method to learn the effects of applying English and adjustments necessary from shot to shot....and that is fine also(y)
 
The_JV said:
lol... I love it and agree.

Unless I'm missing something. Pure BHE will skew your mechanics and beg for break downs in your stroke. Now if you pivot your entire body but keep your bridge hand still. This would manifest BHE adjustment but keep your mechanics in line. I think a distinction needs to be made between the methods.

I will make body pivoting adjustments if I fell off the aim line too much while getting down on the shot. This is just a lazy fix, and works fine within limits. The trick is to not push those limits to the point of risking mechanical breakdown.

The same amount of tip adjustment requires more movement in terms of BHE vs FHE. This is just a function of bridge hand location.
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If you simply pivot, maybe. Depends how hard you need to stroke. If you need some precise oomph you can do as you do. What I do is set the pivoted stick line and get in place over the stick.
 
Jeremy Jones did an interesting video on how he aims with side spin. Briefly, he says he (and many players) quite naturally line up with the tip offset but the butt of the cue “centered” so no pivot is required.

@slach , I am curious why you posited that BHE will add more spin compared to parallel offset even if the tip on both shots hits the CB at the same point. Is there really a non-trivial difference in spin imparted by the two methods?
 
Zerksies said:
most are just natural talents and probably do this without thinking.
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After a while, true about the no thinking part. It's learned by one and all but natural talent not necessary. Just not for "C" players or lower. And especially not for those who think playing with a straight or parallel cue is the only way to go. It's an angled cue either preset or dynamically done during the stroke with the wrist and fingers curling under or upward.
Zerksies said:
I think this BHE is just a plot to sell lessons
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Absolutely not! Look at videos of some of the old timers as they used it on many shots throughout the racks.
 
dquarasr said:
Jeremy Jones did an interesting video on how he aims with side spin. Briefly, he says he (and many players) quite naturally line up with the tip offset but the butt of the cue “centered” so no pivot is required.

@slach , I am curious why you posited that BHE will add more spin compared to parallel offset even if the tip on both shots hits the CB at the same point. Is there really a non-trivial difference in spin imparted by the two methods?
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Intuitively I think the slightly greater angle the cue strikes the ball with BHE would impart more spin.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
What does "centered" mean?

pj
chgo
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The shooter comes down on the shot with the cue already lined up at an angle to the CB contact point so the stroke is “normal”, not modified with the back hand pivoted to either side to effect a side spin contact point on the CB. The stroke can be executed as if it’s a straight-in shot with no side spin.

In reality it’s more of a natural FHE. Please review the video and let me know if I am interpreting it correctly.

 
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