2024 World 8 Ball Championship (2-8 Sep), New Zealand , Winner $75K

[sjm]

I was shocked to see this dumb set format used in the world championship.

Even harder to believe is that an event using this format would be sanctioned by WPA as a world championship. Then again, WPA has been in a slump for a couple of years now, so one more stupid mistake goes almost unnoticed.

 

[sjm]

either way, this guy is a good pattern player. i suspect he plays straight pool

Yes, straight pool skills definitely help, but the game is so easy at top pro level that even less than elite pattern players run out in eight ball on the nine-footer. Also, there is so little counterplay in the game that who is in the chair makes little difference. Eight ball at this level is a breaking contest and, for that reason, the upset, though difficult to predict, is easy to imagine.

I'm rooting for Josh, already the only active player to have captured the three hardest titles to win in pool (World 9-ball, China Open, US Open), to add another jewel to one of the most impressive resumes of all time, but he'll have to earn it and I expect a close final.

 

[Poolmanis]

Yes, straight pool skills definitely help, but the game is so easy at top pro level that even less than elite pattern players run out in eight ball on the nine-footer. Also, there is so little counterplay in the game that who is in the chair makes little difference. Eight ball at this level is a breaking contest and, for that reason, the upset, though difficult to predict, is easy to imagine.

I'm rooting for Josh, already the only active player to have captured the three hardest titles to win in pool (World 9-ball, China Open, US Open), to add another jewel to one of the most impressive resumes of all time, but he'll have to earn it and I expect a close final.

easier to capture when announce not playing and then coming after many other strong ones did not..

 

[kling&allen]

easier to capture when announce not playing and then coming after many other strong ones did not..

Yes, any victory here certainly will come with an asterisk next to it (like strike shortened seasons in baseball, etc).

 

[spartan]

Also to follow up on Kristina's picture, here is the final count on that match. I personally don't like the mulit-set format, but it does pan out (usually) that the winner of the match won more individual games. Here, Siming won decidedly more games.

Kristina is pointing out the anomaly after 3 sets not whole match. Of cos, by and large those matches where the loser won same or more racks than loser are minority but in some events number of such matches is not small.
For eg. in Las Vegas Open 2024, at least 10 such matches

In World 10 Ball 2024 earlier this year, quarterfinal Albin v Gorst.
Albin won more racks but lost the match and lost out $11K (Quarterfinal pays $11K Semifinal pays $22K)

 

[spartan]

I do think the way rankings are done is odd and unfair. A player's total record should be taken into account. The payouts are also too top heavy.

I am somewhat agnostic on winner break. Lean more toward than not, though, because alternate break would lengthen matches. Fans just aren't going to want to watch 3 hour plus matches all the time. Tennis can get away with it to some extent, but no other sport.

A 30-second shot clock is not going away. Nor should it.

Yes, MR doing rankings simply based on prizemoney comes across as super simplistic and not thought through. For one thing, different event promoters in WNT tour allocate prizemoney differently without some fixed formula for eg. 1st prize can vary from 15% to 25%.
They should benchmark follow ranking methodologies of sports like tennis, football where points are based on category of event, strength of field etc.

 

[spartan]

could be interesting, filler vs hsu. but filler of course massive favorite

Yes, it looks like David v Goliath. Or Ryanair vs Lufthansa.

Though commentator did say Ryan break success 75%+ higher than Filler. But against Marco, on the hill under pressure , he blew few chances to close the match. For Ryan getting into final with guaranteed $45K is already a bonus
The main difference is Filler performs under pressure, is a closer and wants it more badly.
Filler has this in the bag.

So long as Filler does not MIA like Johann Chua in recent European Open final

 

[spartan]

Finals start 930am local NZ time (530pm Eastern) about 2.5 hours from now

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[sjm]

Yes, any victory here certainly will come with an asterisk next to it (like strike shortened seasons in baseball, etc).

Of course it won't.

Shall we devalue all titles won in the absence of some of the game's superstars? Many of the top Asians didn't play in the just completed US Open and neither did Kaci, silver medalist at the World championships. Does Fedor get an asterisk because the field could have been and should have been stronger?

No, winning titles is about beating those that are present, not those that might have been and chose not to be.

 

[sjm]

Finals start 930am local NZ time (530pm Eastern) about 2.5 hours from now


View attachment 777256

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The Official Pro Billiard Series YouTube channel, home of the best pool matches and highlights. We bring you live matches, highlights and action from the Pro Billiard Series events around the world. Subscribe and enjoy watching the biggest stars in pool billiards. __________________________...

www.youtube.com

That's quite a lineup!

 

[kling&allen]

Of course it won't.

Shall we devalue all titles won in the absence of some of the game's superstars? Many of the top Asians didn't play in the just completed US Open and neither did Kaci, silver medalist at the World championships. Does Fedor get an asterisk because the field could have been and should have been stronger?

No, winning titles is about beating those that are present, not those that might have been and chose not to be.

I respectfully disagree with you on this Stu. None of those other situations involve a player boycott that was broke at the last minute by one of the game’s top players. This is more like strike shortened baseball seasons. And this isn’t even getting into the ethics of the situation.

 

[skogstokig]

Yes, it looks like David v Goliath. Or Ryanair vs Lufthansa.

Though commentator did say Ryan break success 75%+ higher than Filler. But against Marco, on the hill under pressure , he blew few chances to close the match. For Ryan getting into final with guaranteed $45K is already a bonus
The main difference is Filler performs under pressure, is a closer and wants it more badly.
Filler has this in the bag.

So long as Filler does not MIA like Johann Chua in recent European Open final

hsu will be an underdog. but he already beat biado, mario, konrad and fortunski. that's pretty strong. and as you say, nothing to lose.

 

[pt109]

In the first full year of competition in his career, a fellow I'd never even heard of won the WPA World 9-ball title in 2003. I'm still in a state of shock that he managed to beat a) 2002 silver medalist Francisco Bustamante in the quarterfinal, b) 2002 gold medalist Earl Strickland in the semifinal and c) the soon to be 2004 World Champion Alex Pagulayan in the final. His name was Thorsten Hohmann, and no Cinderella ever had so tall a task in winning a world championship.

Can't say I've ever been more amazed in a WPA sanctioned world championship than in 2003.

I don’t think Thorsten was such a dark horse in 2003. He was probably the best straight pool player in the world at that time….the German army gave him lots of time on a pool table in recognition of his talent.
He was in superb physical condition. Because of this, Alex stopped drinking and smoking for a year, and hit a million balls to win the next year.

 

[AtLarge]

Though commentator did say Ryan break success 75%+ higher than Filler. ...

The commentator was comparing the break success in Hsu's semifinal match against Teutscher (ongoing at the time) versus Filler's semifinal match with Wu. Hsu was successful on 7 of 9 breaks in his semifinal, whereas Filler was successful on 5 of 10.

In the other streamed matches I have tracked with Filler and Hsu, successful breaks were:

Filler -- 5 of 8 against Hohmann and 4 of 10 against Chang​

Hsu -- 7 of 10 against Juszczyszyn​

​

So Filler's 3-match total is 50% (14 of 28).
And Hsu's 2-match total is 74% (14 of 19).

 

[stunshotDAVE]

I don’t think Thorsten was such a dark horse in 2003. He was probably the best straight pool player in the world at that time….the German army gave him lots of time on a pool table in recognition of his talent.
He was in superb physical condition. Because of this, Alex stopped drinking and smoking for a year, and hit a million balls to win the next year.

3000 balls per day for 1 year

 

[sjm]

I respectfully disagree with you on this Stu. None of those other situations involve a player boycott that was broke at the last minute by one of the game’s top players. This is more like strike shortened baseball seasons. And this isn’t even getting into the ethics of the situation.

Obviously, you disagree, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there are no ethics of relevance.

The pro players have been continually victimized by the holy wars in our sport and have had to make decisions in which conflicts of interests between WPA, Matchroom and their sponsors have presented irreconcilable problems. The players have, undeniably, struggled with these decisions, teetering in the winds of change.

If you think that players like Albin and Josh, both sponsored by Predator, were faced with the same kind of decision regarding World 8-ball participation as some of the others, you are uninformed. I support every single player in every decision they make under the stress of these terrifying moments in our game and will not join forces with the holier-than-thou brigade of pool enthusiasts that wants to devalue the achievements of others in an arbitrary and completed unprecedented manner.

Greatness is, has always been, and will always be measured in titles and either Hsu or Filler will add to his resume of greatness in the final. May the best man win.

 

[sjm]

I don’t think Thorsten was such a dark horse in 2003. He was probably the best straight pool player in the world at that time….the German army gave him lots of time on a pool table in recognition of his talent.
He was in superb physical condition. Because of this, Alex stopped drinking and smoking for a year, and hit a million balls to win the next year.

Not so.

Thorsten didn't even medal in the European 14.1 Championships in 2003 or in 2004. Niels Feijen won gold in both 2003 and 2004 and was, very clearly, the best straight pooler in the world at that time, with Thomas Engert just as clearly second best.

Hohmann established himself as the one to beat in the 2005 European 14.1 Championships and backed it up with a world 14.1 championship in 2006. Nobody had heard of him in 2003.

 

[sjm]

The commentator was comparing the break success in Hsu's semifinal match against Teutscher (ongoing at the time) versus Filler's semifinal match with Wu. Hsu was successful on 7 of 9 breaks in his semifinal, whereas Filler was successful on 5 of 10.

In the other streamed matches I have tracked with Filler and Hsu, successful breaks were:

Filler -- 5 of 8 against Hohmann and 4 of 10 against Chang​

Hsu -- 7 of 10 against Juszczyszyn​

​

So Filler's 3-match total is 50% (14 of 28).
And Hsu's 2-match total is 74% (14 of 19).

Great stuff here. Hsu's outstanding break success rate gives him a great chance to snap off this event. Let the games begin!

 

[kling&allen]

Obviously, you disagree, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there are no ethics of relevance.

The pro players have been continually victimized by the holy wars in our sport and have had to make decisions in which conflicts of interests between WPA, Matchroom and their sponsors have presented irreconcilable problems. The players have, undeniably, struggled with these decisions, teetering in the winds of change.

If you think that players like Albin and Josh, both sponsored by Predator, were faced with the same kind of decision regarding World 8-ball participation as some of the others, you are uninformed. I support every single player in every decision they make under the stress of these terrifying moments in our game and will not join forces with the holier-than-thou brigade of pool enthusiasts that wants to devalue the achievements of others in an arbitrary and completed unprecedented manner.

Greatness is, has always been, and will always be measured in titles and either Hsu or Filler will add to his resume of greatness in the final. May the best man win.

I don’t disagree on those points Stu about the players. I think you wisely avoid social media, but Filler’s response to this situation was vastly different than Albin’s, which is why Filler is taking heat from many (like Mike P at Billiards Digest and other reasonable voices) and not Albin).

 

[sjm]

Yes, MR doing rankings simply based on prizemoney comes across as super simplistic and not thought through. For one thing, different event promoters in WNT tour allocate prizemoney differently without some fixed formula for eg. 1st prize can vary from 15% to 25%.
They should benchmark follow ranking methodologies of sports like tennis, football where points are based on category of event, strength of field etc.

Yes, well said. I like the way tennis does it.

This year, the rankings are ridiculous, skewed by the prize structure at the World Championships.