WPA Bans 245 Players

Matchroom got into the darts world some years ago, and there was a split there too. I don't know how this all ends for pool, but it's worth looking at what happened to darts - I _think_ darts is doing OK now.
 
billb said:
But, in my opinion, for whatever that's worth, the players would be crazy to not participate in Matchroom events....whether the WPA approves or not is almost irrelevant.
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Obviously it is not irrelevant, at least for some of the pros and they feel they can not make a living solely playing as a WNT pro.

I said it in another topic: Even players like Filler and Albin seem to still need to rely on existing sponsorship deals, fundings and their local organisations.
Otherwise they wouldn't hesitate for a second and wave good bye to the WPA and everything connected.
 
garczar said:
Just go check the money list every year for the last 25yrs. I don't follow snooker closely if at all. Those pros pre-Hearn/MR were basically second-class chumps living off scraps til MR modernized/monetized the game. Did Barry Hearn do your ol lady or what???? Why you so pissed at these guys?? Without them you'd have basically no pro pool worth watching.
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If having basically no pro pool worth watching ment the cue or pool table I wanted to buy could possibly be 15-20% cheaper because they wouldnt have to front so much money to pro players, I know what way I would choose.
I enjoy watching a pro match at times, but never feel the need to see it in real time.
While some are interested enough to actually pay and watch as it is happening, that's all great and good as they obvously enjoy it, but that is an extremely small segment of the pool playing market.
If watching pros play is such a big thing and so important to pool, why is it the chairs are basically empty on the tv tables other than the final day? It can't be because of cost, as these are the top world pros playing, every chair should be filled. It just shows how limited importance professional pool is in the real scheme of things when you can't even fill 50-150 seats for a televised performance.
Amature pool is growing, at least in our area it is, but as to how it relates to professional pool, I would imagine half or more of the league players couldn't name a professional pool player or care for that matter. They certainly aren't going to pay to watch it. One good thing is all the airing on billiards on Samsung smart tvs. You can find most anything pool related, and free to watch. They even run some of the top tournaments that are playing, in real time at times or with a short delay.
 
muskyed said:
If having basically no pro pool worth watching ment the cue or pool table I wanted to buy could possibly be 15-20% cheaper because they wouldnt have to front so much money to pro players, I know what way I would choose.
I enjoy watching a pro match at times, but never feel the need to see it in real time.
While some are interested enough to actually pay and watch as it is happening, that's all great and good as they obvously enjoy it, but that is an extremely small segment of the pool playing market.
If watching pros play is such a big thing and so important to pool, why is it the chairs are basically empty on the tv tables other than the final day? It can't be because of cost, as these are the top world pros playing, every chair should be filled. It just shows how limited importance professional pool is in the real scheme of things when you can't even fill 50-150 seats for a televised performance.
Amature pool is growing, at least in our area it is, but as to how it relates to professional pool, I would imagine half or more of the league players couldn't name a professional pool player or care for that matter. They certainly aren't going to pay to watch it. One good thing is all the airing on billiards on Samsung smart tvs. You can find most anything pool related, and free to watch. They even run some of the top tournaments that are playing, in real time at times or with a short delay.
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Awful lot of words to say you don't like pro pool. What you say here has nothing to do with what i said. I was talking about what MR has done for the pro game, not whether or not some random person does/doesn't like/watch pro pool. BTW, sponsoring players would never add '15-20%' to a table or cues cost. Get real bud.
 
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SBC said:
He's the kind of cheap miserable pool fan who won't buy a DAZN subscription to watch all these awesome WNT events.
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I tend to agree but i too won't buy DAZN. Has nothing to do with cheap/miserable just the fact they suck to deal with. I had it once before for the Mosconi and getting it cancelled was worse than getting a tooth pulled. I don't want/need it year round. Never again.
 
garczar said:
I tend to agree but i too won't buy DAZN. Has nothing to do with cheap/miserable just the fact they suck to deal with. I had it once before for the Mosconi and getting it cancelled was worse than getting a tooth pulled. I don't want/need it year round. Never again.
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No doubt, but I don't watch most sports anymore except for pool. Got to deal with the devil to see what I want to see.
 
tomatoshooter said:
Who's gonna tell him?

Seriously, pool needs major sanctioning bodies less than most sports. A room with a couple dozen tables is all you need, in the strictest sense. Clip a camera to the light and you can broadcast it. I know raising prix money and promoting are part of it, but that's true of any sport. If I wanted to start a baseball league I'd need several ballparks to start. I don't want to trivialize what Matchroom is doing, but thinking about the logistics of most sports is mind blowing, and those sports couldn't exist without a significant level of logistical support.
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Yes, I know that they do get paid. But it's not above board in most cases. Scholarships, cars, watches, etc...getting paid for NIL through sponsorships, etc. They can't be paid directly by colleges.

Jaden
 
jay helfert said:
MR went through all this over 25 years ago when they put on competing World 9-Ball Championships with the WPA in the same year. The winner of the MR World Championship (Efren?) won $100,000 and the winner of the WPA World Championship (Nick Varner) won $15,000. That's when MR got the rights to use that name.

I've been around Pool for a very long time and here's my take on this. The WPA had decades to do something for professional pool and its players and they failed miserably. Their only goal seemed to be receiving sanctioning fees from the promoters who spent their time and money producing the events. The WPA failed to protect the players when they were not paid their "guaranteed" prize money in WPA sanctioned events. They only paid lip service to player complaints and in many cases sanctioned (and received money for doing so) from the same dubious promoters again for later events.

Now that the WPA is threatened by the success of Matchroom's WNT pro pool tour they are lashing out in the only way they can. Fedor just won 250K in a WNT tournament! Which way do you think he will be going? Other top players should follow his lead if they're smart. The WNT tourneys are well run, well executed, and offer good prize money.
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I always knew this was where the WPA was heading. They've dug their own grave, and now must rot in it.

The idea of a world wide pool federation is appealing. In practise it ended up being an entity solely working to keep itself afloat, not to further pools interests. It has focused on a number of issues that are very distant to the everyday struggle of pros, let alone average players. Like anti-doping campaigns that are only there to fit in to the larger athletic federations. It has greedily collected its dues without offering solutions to- or even mitigating pool rather epic decline.

WPA won't go away quietly, I bet they'll hang on to whatever shreds of legitimacy they have left, with white knuckles. Unfortunately for them, MR has seen the opening that they left and has swept in. It will not be ideal to have pool "owned" by a private entity, but then again, when the governing body has proved inept, we are left with this as our only option.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
I always knew this was where the WPA was heading. They've dug their own grave, and now must rot in it.

The idea of a world wide pool federation is appealing. In practise it ended up being an entity solely working to keep itself afloat, not to further pools interests. It has focused on a number of issues that are very distant to the everyday struggle of pros, let alone average players. Like anti-doping campaigns that are only there to fit in to the larger athletic federations. It has greedily collected its dues without offering solutions to- or even mitigating pool rather epic decline.

WPA won't go away quietly, I bet they'll hang on to whatever shreds of legitimacy they have left, with white knuckles. Unfortunately for them, MR has seen the opening that they left and has swept in. It will not be ideal to have pool "owned" by a private entity, but then again, when the governing body has proved inept, we are left with this as our only option.
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MR doesn't want to own pool. They are interested in the pro mens game. They have zero desire to be involved with national federations,amateurs,etc. That's where the WPA should be and let pro pool be run by pros.
 
garczar said:
MR doesn't want to own pool. They are interested in the pro mens game. They have zero desire to be involved with national federations,amateurs,etc. That's where the WPA should be and let pro pool be run by pros.
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I agree in part to what you are saying. Unfortunately, MR will have the power to change how the game is played unilaterally. Ball colors, pocket sizes, cloth color/speed, rail speed/profiles, and other important aspects of the game will largely be determined by the pro game. They can and will be changed very quickly which will not be a good thing for the game long term. We don't need 15 rule changes in a year. MR has done an admirable job with snooker, but my fear is that they do not respect the integrity of the pool game like they do snooker, and certain decisions has confirmed this. The infamous 5 ball debacle, for one. The fact is that when a sport is completely at the mercy of a private, commercial entity, that means that we must weather any ludicrous edict with no possible appeal, like being at the court of a sovereign King of the middle ages.

I worry that pool will be a constant testbed for harebrained ideas and never will properly stabilize. It is important for the development of a sport, to have a relatively stable rule set, in order for skills to increase and strategy to progress, not to mention being recognizable and understandable for the viewing public.
 
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garczar said:
I tend to agree but i too won't buy DAZN. Has nothing to do with cheap/miserable just the fact they suck to deal with. I had it once before for the Mosconi and getting it cancelled was worse than getting a tooth pulled. I don't want/need it year round. Never again.
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I have it. You can pretty easily pause the subscription, that's what I used to do until MR started having tourneys pretty much every month.

Jaden
 
Straightpool_99 said:
I agree in part to what you are saying. Unfortunately, MR will have the power to change how the game is played unilaterally. Ball colors, pocket sizes, cloth color/speed, rail speed/profiles, and other important aspects of the game will largely be determined by the pro game. They can and will be changed very quickly which will not be a good thing for the game long term. We don't need 15 rule changes in a year. MR has done an admirable job with snooker, but my fear is that they do not respect the integrity of the pool game like they do snooker, and certain decisions has confirmed this. The infamous 5 ball debacle, for one. The fact is that when a sport is completely at the mercy of a private, commercial entity, that means that we must weather any ludicrous edict with no possible appeal, like being at the court of a sovereign King of the middle ages.

I worry that pool will be a constant testbed for harebrained ideas and never will properly stabilize. It is important for the development of a sport, to have a relatively stable rule set, in order for skills to increase and strategy to progress, not to mention being recognizable and understandable for the viewing public.
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The purple 5 is a great example, what exactly was the purpose other than MR asserting their dominance? The other balls didnt change colors so its not like they did it for the viewer, they simply swapped the 4 and 5 ball colors around and had Aramith make a special set of beyond ugly half black balls.
 
fastone371 said:
The purple 5 is a great example, what exactly was the purpose other than MR asserting their dominance? The other balls didnt change colors so its not like they did it for the viewer, they simply swapped the 4 and 5 ball colors around and had Aramith make a special set of beyond ugly half black balls.
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Have you seen a full set??? How 'bout that 9ball brother????????? This was Emily 'piss markin' her territory as the new major-domo of MR 9ball. That being said its one of the few fk-ups they've done so far. Pro pool would be stuck in neutral if it wasn't for MR. I'll give 'em a pass, kinda, on these horrid spheres.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
I agree in part to what you are saying. Unfortunately, MR will have the power to change how the game is played unilaterally. Ball colors, pocket sizes, cloth color/speed, rail speed/profiles, and other important aspects of the game will largely be determined by the pro game. They can and will be changed very quickly which will not be a good thing for the game long term. We don't need 15 rule changes in a year. MR has done an admirable job with snooker, but my fear is that they do not respect the integrity of the pool game like they do snooker, and certain decisions has confirmed this. The infamous 5 ball debacle, for one. The fact is that when a sport is completely at the mercy of a private, commercial entity, that means that we must weather any ludicrous edict with no possible appeal, like being at the court of a sovereign King of the middle ages.

I worry that pool will be a constant testbed for harebrained ideas and never will properly stabilize. It is important for the development of a sport, to have a relatively stable rule set, in order for skills to increase and strategy to progress, not to mention being recognizable and understandable for the viewing public.
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A tad dramatic don't you think? Wow. That set is used only in WNT events. I've never seen a stream/video where those balls were used other than a MR event. I do not believe that MR's intent is to do a wholesale 'takeover' and alter the entire pool landscape. That's some big brother/twilight zone shit right there. 'ludicrous edicts'?? MiddleAges??? Sovereign kings?? Seriously? Relax bro. Pool will be fine.
 
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garczar said:
Have you seen a full set??? How 'bout that 9ball brother????????? This was Emily 'piss markin' her territory as the new major-domo of MR 9ball. That being said its one of the few fk-ups they've done so far. Pro pool would be stuck in neutral if it wasn't for MR. I'll give 'em a pass, kinda, on these horrid spheres.
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Unpopular opinion: I really like the Tournament Black balls on the Shark Grey Simonis.
Those with weak constitutions should avert their eyes...
1729179182705.jpeg
 
garczar said:
A tad dramatic don't you think? Wow. That set is used only in WNT events. I've never seen a stream/video where those balls were used other than a MR event. I do not believe that MR's intent is to do a wholesale 'takeover' and alter the entire pool landscape. That's some big brother/twilight zone shit right there. 'ludicrous edicts'?? MiddleAges??? Sovereign kings?? Seriously? Relax bro. Pool will be fine.
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I'm afraid not. MR has been saved from ifself by the conservative British audience many times. Othervise snooker would not have been recognizable today. Who will save pool from their inventions?
Fwiw they're still a better custodian of pool than WPA.
 
muskyed said:
If having basically no pro pool worth watching ment the cue or pool table I wanted to buy could possibly be 15-20% cheaper because they wouldnt have to front so much money to pro players, I know what way I would choose.
I enjoy watching a pro match at times, but never feel the need to see it in real time.
While some are interested enough to actually pay and watch as it is happening, that's all great and good as they obvously enjoy it, but that is an extremely small segment of the pool playing market.
If watching pros play is such a big thing and so important to pool, why is it the chairs are basically empty on the tv tables other than the final day? It can't be because of cost, as these are the top world pros playing, every chair should be filled. It just shows how limited importance professional pool is in the real scheme of things when you can't even fill 50-150 seats for a televised performance.
Amature pool is growing, at least in our area it is, but as to how it relates to professional pool, I would imagine half or more of the league players couldn't name a professional pool player or care for that matter. They certainly aren't going to pay to watch it. One good thing is all the airing on billiards on Samsung smart tvs. You can find most anything pool related, and free to watch. They even run some of the top tournaments that are playing, in real time at times or with a short delay.
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This is a good post. Too many times folks on here (me included) will make statements wishing pro's could make enough to become rich, or wishing pool had a better reputation. Then I think to myself...why?? How does the 33rd best pro in the world making a couple million a year help me AT ALL? Why is it so important?

On any given league night, you can come in a nd see a dozen Revos, a few customs, a dozen Cuetecs, JB cases, Hustlin' Tshirts galore...and not ONE single person who has ever bought a MR PPV, so I am not sure how many NEW fans MR is bringing in...at least it's not evident in my microscopic corner of the world.

I was a little underwhelmed by the fans at the Hanoi open. Maybe I was just expecting MC type fans based on folks posting about last year. But, I didn't see a crazy pumped up crowd packed in the arena. (Full discloser, I didnt watch the last day, so I could have just missed it.)
 
garczar said:
Awful lot of words to say you don't like pro pool. What you say here has nothing to do with what i said. I was talking about what MR has done for the pro game, not whether or not some random person does/doesn't like/watch pro pool. BTW, sponsoring players would never add '15-20%' to a table or cues cost. Get real bud.
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You seem really confused, never said or implied that I don't like pro pool. That's just a misrepresentation on your part. I just feel that based on the things I mentioned, it's not yet as important of a thing as some in the minority make it out to be. That has absolutely nothing to do with whether I like it or not, as I really do enjoy watching it.
 
jokrswylde said:
I was a little underwhelmed by the fans at the Hanoi open. Maybe I was just expecting MC type fans based on folks posting about last year. But, I didn't see a crazy pumped up crowd packed in the arena. (Full discloser, I didnt watch the last day, so I could have just missed it.)
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yup, you did. the early days have the multi table setup and the arenas MR build facilitates for walking around to watch your favorite players / matches.

i guess it's both good and bad - it looks weird on tv when the tv table seats are half empty and you hear crowd roars from tables that are not streamed. but for attendees it seems much appreciated, almost everyone i've talked to that have been to a MR event brings up that aspect
 
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