Young Pro 9 Ball Players

[Island Drive]

Is this day & age seeing the new players that improve, I'm starting to see/feel this. R/You?
On simple open table kick shots when rolling whitey 6-10 feet, the younger generation seem to ''feel the shot'' at hand.
The youngsters more often than not, contact the correct side of the object ball.
My youth/Varner years we player Roll out 9 ball, great game, best player/smartest, most always won, if you did your work properly.
My generation grew up with tactical board play, taking the free shot and working the rack/legally.
Kicking/not much.

 

[Black-Balled]

It isn't rocket surgery.

1 foul players are better at kicking and the pushout generation was better at pushouting.

 

[nataddrho]

More consistent and level equipment helps kick accuracy as well as what is practiced.

Look at 5-pin billiards. Extra thick slate, very expensive Italian tables, best kickers in the world. Not necessarily younger players.

My friend Luca is commentating

 

[sjm]

It isn't rocket surgery.

1 foul players are better at kicking and the pushout generation was better at pushouting.

Also, two-way shots are an integral part of the game when opponent cannot pushout in mid-rack. Many of the two-ways shots that Reyes brought to pool would have had no application in the rollout days.

I really tire of the argument that the better player was more likely to win at rollout than in today's game, which requires a more complete set of skills, because that argument equates "better player" with "straighter shooter."

The better player doesn't mean the straighter shooter - it means the player with the more complete skill set and the one having a more refined sense of the tradeoffs between offense and defense in today's version of the game, which often allows you to play both simultaneously.

 

[Black-Balled]

Also, two-way shots are an integral part of the game when opponent cannot pushout in mid-rack. Many of the two-ways shots that Reyes brought to pool would have had no application in the rollout days.

I really tire of the argument that the better player was more likely to win at rollout than in today's game, which requires a more complete set of skills, because it equates "better player" with "straighter shooter."

The better player doesn't mean the straighter shooter - it means the player with the more complete skill set and the one having a more refined sense of the tradeoffs between offense and defense in today's version of the game, which often allows you to play both simultaneously.

Yep

And where we always end up: the greats woulda be greats in whatever era they showed.

 

[Flakeandrun]

In this day and age, I am more interested in how they come up with the finance to travel, compete and become pro in the first place. I wonder how many great players lie unnoticed, or don't reach their potential purely for the fact they don't have a backer, or the right contacts/background to ensure they get sponsored, know about the tournaments etc.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Also, two-way shots are an integral part of the game when opponent cannot pushout in mid-rack. Many of the two-ways shots that Reyes brought to pool would have had no application in the rollout days.

I really tire of the argument that the better player was more likely to win at rollout than in today's game, which requires a more complete set of skills, because it equates "better player" with "straighter shooter."

The better player doesn't mean the straighter shooter - it means the player with the more complete skill set and the one having a more refined sense of the tradeoffs between offense and defense in today's version of the game, which often allows you to play both simultaneously.

Nicely put Stu

 

[jasonlaus]

In this day and age, I am more interested in how they come up with the finance to travel, compete and become pro in the first place. I wonder how many great players lie unnoticed, or don't reach their potential purely for the fact they don't have a backer, or the right contacts/background to ensure they get sponsored, know about the tournaments etc.

None.

They'd still be playing locally and have 800+ fargos

 

[Flakeandrun]

None.

They'd still be playing locally and have 800+ fargos

I don't think so. There's a guy at my local hall who beat Biado, De Ruyter and many top pros around time of the China Open/Yuan8 tourney. And he is basically unknown beyond here. Money makes the world go around... Tons of top quality players are not Fargo Rated. Though I know that is how people in the US define 'what good is'
Who you know, money and background afford opportunity and elevate so many players. Or were you agreeing with me? Maybe I misread. Still early here and the coffee hasn't hit.

 

[jasonlaus]

I don't think so. There's a guy at my local hall who beat Biado, De Ruyter and many top pros around time of the China Open/Yuan8 tourney. And he is basically unknown beyond here. Money makes the world go around... Tons of top quality players are not Fargo Rated. Though I know that is how people in the US define 'what good is'
Who you know, money and background afford opportunity and elevate so many players. Or were you agreeing with me? Maybe I misread. Still early here and the coffee hasn't hit.

So, people know him?

 

[Flakeandrun]

So, people know him?

Does he get the same level of recognition or opportunities as those with privileged introduction to the game?

 

[jasonlaus]

Does he get the same level of recognition or opportunities as those with privileged introduction to the game?

Privileged introduction? Is this a clown show?

 

[Flakeandrun]

Privileged introduction? Is this a clown show?

Appears to be sometimes. Very much so.

 

[jasonlaus]

Appears to be sometimes. Very much so.

Nonsense. Where do you people come up with this crap???

 

[Flakeandrun]

Nonsense. Where do you people come up with this crap???

Logical observation of reality?

 

[jasonlaus]

Logical observation of reality?

Sure

 

[puertorociii]

More consistent and level equipment helps kick accuracy as well as what is practiced.

Look at 5-pin billiards. Extra thick slate, very expensive Italian tables, best kickers in the world. Not necessarily younger players.

My friend Luca is commentating

Never knew about this game, very intense! Watched the whole thing.

 

[Cuebuddy]

Logical observation of reality?

Sure

I hate when you two fight.

 

[jay helfert]

I don't think so. There's a guy at my local hall who beat Biado, De Ruyter and many top pros around time of the China Open/Yuan8 tourney. And he is basically unknown beyond here. Money makes the world go around... Tons of top quality players are not Fargo Rated. Though I know that is how people in the US define 'what good is'
Who you know, money and background afford opportunity and elevate so many players. Or were you agreeing with me? Maybe I misread. Still early here and the coffee hasn't hit.

Fifty guys like that in Texas alone, probably 750-800 speed. They live and play locally, have jobs/families and hustle games with local champs. I've seen them in action - killers! I followed my friend Manny Chau around down there nearly ten years ago (when he was one of the best players in all of Texas) and he pointed out guys that were just as strong as him. A couple of them he smiled at me and said he didn't want to play them. That got my attention!

 

[jay helfert]

Also, two-way shots are an integral part of the game when opponent cannot pushout in mid-rack. Many of the two-ways shots that Reyes brought to pool would have had no application in the rollout days.

I really tire of the argument that the better player was more likely to win at rollout than in today's game, which requires a more complete set of skills, because that argument equates "better player" with "straighter shooter."

The better player doesn't mean the straighter shooter - it means the player with the more complete skill set and the one having a more refined sense of the tradeoffs between offense and defense in today's version of the game, which often allows you to play both simultaneously.

This is one where we will have to disagree Stu. Efren would have been an even more successful 9-Ball player playing "rollout" pool. It's a closer cousin to the game of Rotation that he grew up on. The more "complete skills" are mainly due to the use of jump cues, with the one foul rule being secondary to that. True, today's best players have mastered this game, but they would need time to learn the previous 9-Ball way of playing.

There was a crossover for a while (several years) where more tournaments began playing "one foul, bih," and the after hours money games were still "pushout" 9-Ball.

There was a lot more variance to 9-Ball when all balls came back up on the spot and the incoming player had the option. And you had this same option any time your opponent fouled. The best players knew how to take advantage of this. Plus you were often shooting from behind the line so you had to execute from distance. As one who grew up playing "Two Fouls by the same player was BIH" I can tell you that I felt I had an advantage over the young shotmakers of my era. I could out move them in a lot of racks. My banking skills won the day quite often. Stu, you often talk about decision making skills and I will tell you they were paramount playing Pushout pool. JMHO as always.

For those who may not be already aware, the reason for the new rules was to speed up the game of 9-Ball and make the matches shorter timewise. All created for TV, thanks first to the McDermott Tour threesome and adopted by Richie Florence for televised matches.