Yes! Nick even said that he hung around for a couple days afterward to see if Efren wanted to play again, but he didn't. Nick brought his own cash.
Who You Got? Mike Sigel or Nick Varner
- Thread starter BasementDweller
- Start date
I do not. Reading is not my strong suit. Sometimes you can be a tough read, but I am tired and dumber than a bag of hoe handles.You know the answer to that, Right? Ooops just talking about Lake City Red gets me fired up. I better go take my meds. Winknight night.
I do appreciate your contributions. Sleep well.
Night night, I blame the meds. No wait I take Full Responsibility.....but none of the blame.
I'm glad to see you take notice of Buddy, who IMO was the greatest 9 ball player ever in his prime, extending back into the early 70's.
One of my favorite memories was watching Buddy and Mike playing sets of 9 ball on the side, during the 1974 Dayton Hustlers' tournament, which Buddy wound up winning. I don't remember who won that head-to-head matchup, because I came in late and had to leave early, but what made it memorable was that they were each playing with their opposite hand! Buddy playing lefthanded was like watching Mizerak Lite (no pun intended), and Mike playing righthanded was nearly as impressive. This was when Buddy was 29 and Mike was 22.
Between Mike and Nick overall, I'd take Nick, but it's basically a coin flip. Mike definitely in 9 ball and straight, Nick in banks and pocket apiece, tossup in 8 ball. I only wish we had a time machine so we could see all these great players in their primes at the same time, including Shane, Fedor, Josh, etc. Overall I might have to go with Fedor.
Ain't it a beauty, and Joe used to carry ten or twelve of them all the time!
Yep, he looked a little mousey. You played Kim at Marina Billiards. That was a big action room in L.A. in the 1970's into the 80's. They had an almost daily $20 Ten Ball ring game that featured all top players. Kim was just a youngster back then, maybe only 20 or 21. He hadn't quite "arrived" yet. His rivalry with Keith for California dominance was just beginning. Those two plus Swanee ruled the roost out here for decades after Richie Florence retired. The roadmen ducked all three if possible. Add Cole Dickson and make it a foursome, but Cole faded fast. By his 30's he was burned out.
I played Jimmy Fusco in there some months after I won my match with him at the Stardust One Pocket tournament. He gave me 8-7 and cleaned my clock. He got even with me for embarrassing him a year earlier in front of all his East Coast fans. Everybody had bet on him and I was like a 5-1 underdog. They got soaked. Jimmy and I remained friends for life after that. One of the real great guys in the pool world! He was underrated, but definitely one of the top five all around players. He had no weakness at any game.
I played in Dayton that year. Buddy beat Mike for the cash. The biggest game was a teenage Allen Hopkins giving Harley Bryant the eight ball for 200 a game. They grinded for what seemed like days before young Hoppy walked out with full pockets. He won his own tournament that year. That was also the first year Denny Searcy cleaned out the Payball game for a telephone number. He did it again a year later. There was action on every table in that big poolroom for two solid weeks. I won (a couple of thou) and lost (a couple!) during my time there. Minimum bet was like 100 a game. Pro pool circa 1970's! I wrote a story about that tourney that was in my book as well.
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They were great friends of course, practiced all the time. But before 1989 definitely Sigel. In 1989, and onward for some time, Sigel worked for Brunswick doing exhibitions. Having watched him over the years he was never at the same level he was before 88-89ish imo. Before 1989 the outcomes were more like the Resorts tournament between the two. Mike was known as the better player back then. Sadly most video of Mike playing are after 1989. Nick did get real hot for 5-6 years after Mike retired, 90s? Would take a prime Mike in Straight pool, 9-Ball, 8-Ball. Would give banks to the Kentuckian. One pocket was not heavily played back then in tournaments. I believe only one video exists of Mike playing it, against Efren? If there was ever the very toughest of high pressure shots, where your house was on the line, a prime Mike Sigel would be who you wanted shooting it. Nick has always been my personal favorite player. But, I don't take away from whats rightfully due to the better player.
Efren also already answered this question several times himself. It was not Nick he mentioned either.
Mike's personality may have rubbed some wrong, at some point, to say anything otherwise. Some are even on video claiming who the best truly was
Efren also already answered this question several times himself. It was not Nick he mentioned either.
Mike's personality may have rubbed some wrong, at some point, to say anything otherwise. Some are even on video claiming who the best truly was
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Atleast someone here doesn't let emotion/feeling get involved in proper decision making
But I would guess you didn't see him play. This isn't a personality contest. It's skill and record.
"It's skill and record."
That's the part I'm hung up on a bit.
I've noticed, not surprisingly, that it looks like all the east coast posters have voted for Sigel. Varner seems to be getting his votes from the rest of the country. When it comes to our favorite players, there's usually some "location" bias. The players you see the most, you tend to be the most impressed with.
When I posted this -- I assumed that once I looked at their career achievements, Mike would be the clear winner. But as I looked more closely, I was surprised how similar their achievements were.
Things we've learned from this thread:
Sigel probably had a hotter run in the 80's.
Varner had a longer, competitive career.
Both players were acknowledged similarly by leading publications.
Titles won are similar *
Varner gets a small bump for beating Efren in their big matchup but it's gambling so...
The one item that could tilt the scales would be the U.S. Open Straight Pool Titles. If Sigel won multiple titles and Varner didn't win any, then I think the "preponderance of the evidence" would lean in Sigel's direction.
Varner is my all-time favorite but was he as good as Sigel? Maybe not.
Or maybe he was better
Polls were supposed to close but I was just notified by the AZ Moderator Team that due to unprecedented levels of voter suppression, the Sigel vs. Varner poll is to remain open indefinitely.
Get those votes in.
Get those votes in.
You may have something there, but Towson, Maryland for Mike Sigel, and Owensboro, Kentucky for Nick Varner, are not exactly on opposite sides of the country. However, I get what you mean. Being a DC area resident for all this time, I saw a great deal of Mike Sigel, not so much of Nick Varner. Both were and are great all-around players. I just don't recall Varner finishing as high as Sigel in most tournaments."It's skill and record."
That's the part I'm hung up on a bit.
I've noticed, not surprisingly, that it looks like all the east coast posters have voted for Sigel. Varner seems to be getting his votes from the rest of the country. When it comes to our favorite players, there's usually some "location" bias. The players you see the most, you tend to be the most impressed with.
When I posted this -- I assumed that once I looked at their career achievements, Mike would be the clear winner. But as I looked more closely, I was surprised how similar their achievements were.
Things we've learned from this thread:
Sigel probably had a hotter run in the 80's.
Varner had a longer, competitive career.
Both players were acknowledged similarly by leading publications.
Titles won are similar *
Varner gets a small bump for beating Efren in their big matchup but it's gambling so...
The one item that could tilt the scales would be the U.S. Open Straight Pool Titles. If Sigel won multiple titles and Varner didn't win any, then I think the "preponderance of the evidence" would lean in Sigel's direction.
Varner is my all-time favorite but was he as good as Sigel? Maybe not.
Or maybe he was better
I would agree, I think Sigel called it quits maybe a little earlier than Varner, certainly earlier than Strickland or Reyes. Cue making did take Sigel out a bit earlier. But I can't think of a World or U.S. Open straight pool tournament that Varner has won, whereas Sigel has several over the decades.
Not to digress, but the matchup I would have liked to see was a Mike Sigel in his prime, probably early 80s, against Luther Lassiter, probably about 1960 to 1965 or so. I saw both play in these timeframes, and believe me, it would have been close in who was better. I couldn't say. But, that's not ponderable.
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I posted this earlier. This is what's listed in Wikipedia for their World 14.1 titles:
Sigel won:
1979
1981
1988
2nd Place:
1980
Varner won:
1980
1986
2nd Place: 1981
You left out Sigel in 1992, New York, Roosevelt Hotel. Sigel first place, Dallas West, second. Believe it was called the U.S. Open. It was a fine line between U.S. and World Open Straight tournaments, I couldn't see much of a difference. It was just a matter of getting enough sponsorship to stage it.
I didn't miss those. I've mentioned a couple times that I couldn't find a reliable list for the U.S. Open Straight Pool.
Sounds like we know Sigel won a couple U.S. Open 14.1's.
Did Varner ever win that one? The Wikipedia listing for that tourney is missing a lot of data or it just didn't get played a lot of years.
I'm not aware of Varner winning a U.S. Open straight pool tournament. Also, bear in mind, they were not exactly played consecutively in the 70s and 80s. Steve Mizerak bagged I believe four in a row in the mid 70s, then it wasn't played for a while. Believe Mike's most recent wins were 1989 and 1992, but I don't recall Varner winning one. Unlike other sports, it's hard to keep track in pool.
How good is this thread?
This is one of the threads that should be archived off into a “Historically” significant read only area at some point, when it’s ran its course.
There are others buried between the bullshit about chalk and aiming which are amazing reads.
We need to speak to Mike (hello
) and archive some of these great threads and dig up the good ones from the last 20+ years here.
Ok back to the regularly scheduled program….
Fatboy
This is one of the threads that should be archived off into a “Historically” significant read only area at some point, when it’s ran its course.
There are others buried between the bullshit about chalk and aiming which are amazing reads.
We need to speak to Mike (hello
) and archive some of these great threads and dig up the good ones from the last 20+ years here.Ok back to the regularly scheduled program….
Fatboy