Matchrooms Concern

Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Here's bite from John McEnroe on their current state of tennis.

"Obviously, the key thing is, we gotta get a Ben Shelton to win one," McEnroe said. "We gotta get some American men to win some majors. And that would make it, to me, much more interesting, if Tiafoe, or Tommy Paul (stepped up)."

I've actually heard a near identical statement yrs ago, when I watched/never played tennis.
It was my prime years/Times.
It was always the Europeans.

That's their target market. Young Americans.

Now we have MR and Young European Men.................. I hope I'm wrong BUT..... feels like it's gonna be a looooooooooooooooooooong time before we see an American win the Open since SVBs era.
Just feels that way to me.
Don't thinks Shane's eyes are young enough anymore.... European & Pinoy & Asian 20 yrs olds eyes are ''tough turtles to drown''.
 
American players should work harder.
Simple fact, they are just not as good.
The local European federations invest a lot in youth and the Eurotour is a strong tour.
While in America, it looks like the guys prefer easy life and shoot on bar boxes…. Yes this again
This has nothing to do with this or that promoters
 
We need a youth system or a youth academy like Europe. Their sports across the board consists of it.

Most American players as of late are prodigies or some kid that hung around at pool halls while their parents were playing. It's one or two. SVB was the kid from the pool hall. The pool hall that I go to have several of these over the years. They don't become pro but the become pretty damn good.

We have young players like Savannah Easton and she's a prodigy.

Adrian Prasad from Sacramento is an up and comer and he plays out of Hard Times. Watch out for him.

It's either/or, prodigy or the kid at the pool hall. We need academies.
 
At the end of the day why does this matter? The US is bar table country and probably always will be. It would take some kind of seismic shift to get large #'s of US players to play big table pool. Not gonna happen anytime soon if ever. I'm sure MR would like to have more US players on the WNT but there's not much they can do about it, its a cultural/social deal that's gonna be one tuff nut to crack.
 
It also doesn't help that Matchroom is a foreign entity. They control pool and hopefully have an influence on Americans.

American players use to get more recognition till Matchroom came along and featured international players. Most of the invitees are from all over the world. They're featuring more international players so it feels like we're a bit behind.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If someone first plays in a bar, they'll give the opposition a ten year head start.
Click to expand...
Yes exactly. Thought experiment. Take a large group- pick any number you prefer- and start them playing pool at 11 on bar tables. Give them training and ten years of practice but only on 7’ tables. Then take the same number of players at 21 and start them on whatever you think the perfect 9’ table is. Which group of 25 year olds does better in 9’ tournaments when the time comes? Obviously the 7’ group. Problem is more the bar than the bar table IMO.
 
billiards_watch said:
It also doesn't help that Matchroom is a foreign entity. They control pool and hopefully have an influence on Americans.

American players use to get more recognition till Matchroom came along and featured international players. Most of the invitees are from all over the world. They're featuring more international players so it feels like we're a bit behind.
Click to expand...
This has nothing to do with Matchroom.
America used to be where players wanted to go to to play with the best, get in the action and compete at the biggest tournaments.
Nowadays, they don’t need to, the European and Asian arenas are bigger.
So there are a lot of strong players that are unknown to the average American pool lover.

An open event is an open event, anybody can sign up and play, there are a fixed number of spots.
If Americans don’t get those spots, it’s because they were either too slow to sign up or they don’t want to play for various reasons.

If you want to blame someone for the state of pool in America, blame the BCA, it’s their job.
If you like what you see in Europe, it’s because of the EPBF.
 
skor said:
American players should work harder.
Simple fact, they are just not as good.
The local European federations invest a lot in youth and the Eurotour is a strong tour.
While in America, it looks like the guys prefer easy life and shoot on bar boxes…. Yes this again
This has nothing to do with this or that promoters
Click to expand...
Yeah, because the 12 year olds with access to pool tables and training in the US see the bar table and decide to be lazy. Please. You can criticize the lack of a solid federation and player development. Laziness and table size have little to do with it. It really is a lot about access and preferred activities for kids. I can find plenty of kids who work hard at what they are interested in. Access to and interest in pool aren’t there in big numbers in the US.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If someone first plays in a bar, they'll give the opposition a ten year head start.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure that I understand you here.
But if two talented players start at the same age, one is playing only 7ft and one is only playing 9ft.

Who will be better after 10 years going into a tournament that is played on a 9ft. table?
 
billiards_watch said:
It also doesn't help that Matchroom is a foreign entity. They control pool and hopefully have an influence on Americans.

American players use to get more recognition till Matchroom came along and featured international players. Most of the invitees are from all over the world. They're featuring more international players so it feels like we're a bit behind.
Click to expand...
Nope. We are way, way behind the rest of the world.

I remember a time when there might be one or two foreigners entered in the US Open or the World Championships but they had zero chance of winning. Oliver Ortmann and Efren Reyes showed us in the 1980s that the rest of the world could beat us and the trend has continued. Today the US doesn't have even 10% of the best players.

Matchroom aided that shift by promoting pool worldwide starting 30 years ago but I think that's only part of the story.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If someone first plays in a bar, they'll give the opposition a ten year head start.
Click to expand...
Going back a long time….when there were lots of unknowns who could take a win off a champion on their home table…9-foot.
There was lots of action.
….and then bar boxes got popular….the action was smaller but it was softer….the money was easier…a lot of the top players who got hooked to these guaranteed paydays never got back to winning on the 9-foots with real players…plus many had drinking and drug habits by then.
….so I’m blaming bar boxes for the condition of pool these days….even though Valley leagues produced SVB.
 
billiards_watch said:
It also doesn't help that Matchroom is a foreign entity. They control pool and hopefully have an influence on Americans.

American players use to get more recognition till Matchroom came along and featured international players. Most of the invitees are from all over the world. They're featuring more international players so it feels like we're a bit behind.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but Matchroom is doing its part to open the door for young American players that want to reach the game's highest level. In 2025 alone:

1) Matchroom will stage the SVB Junior Open in conjunction with the US Open 9ball
2) Matchroom is producing a new major championship in America called the Florida Open

For me, there's every reason to believe that Matchroom investment in pool in America will continue to grow.

I don't blame the bar tables for the fall of American pool, although they are a factor. Bar table play was the norm in America even when America had most of the world's greatest pool players some 30 years ago. The solution to the fall of the American players, in general, lies in training. As a nation, America must own its fall from the game's highest tiers and, in my opinion, has largely failed to do so.

Matchroom is investing more and more in pool in America, and through its actions, adding to the American pool scene. As far as I'm concerned, Matchroom, through their actions, have shown great support for American pool.

Matchroom is the best thing that has happened to pro pool in the 21st century!
 
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I'm not directly blaming MR but pointing out that we can't even get even promote pool properly and it took an outside entity to the game more interesting and popular again. We don't have much to promote American players.

When people say "pool is dead" then I tend to disagree. I believe its as popular as ever.
 
Bob Jewett said:
... Today the US doesn't have even 10% of the best players. ...
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It's worse than that. Here are the USA players in the top 100 from FargoRate:

3 Fedor Gorst USA 846
6 Shane Van Boening USA 843
34 Skyler Woodward USA 812
51 Mike Dechaine USA 804
86 Justin Bergman USA 793
93 Calvin Coker USA 791
96 Oscar Dominguez USA 790

That looks like seven, but you might discount the recent arrival. Also, Dechaine and Bergman and Dominguez rarely play in major events now. Amazingly, Oscar's earnings this year total $200. Not sure who Calvin Coker is, but judging by his earnings, the listing might be a glitch.

So, that leaves two or three active US players in the top 100.
 
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US men's soccer players realized in the last 10-15 years that going to Europe as an 18 year old prospect was better than going to college or straight to an MLS team. Some of them have made it into the top clubs, which are leagues better than MLS teams.

If a 16-18 year American player were serious enough to consider a future in pool, I think moving to Europe would help their development, obviously if finances and visas allow it to happen.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It's worse than that. Here are the USA players in the top 100 from FargoRate:

3 Fedor Gorst USA 846
6 Shane Van Boening USA 843
34 Skyler Woodward USA 812
51 Mike Dechaine USA 804
86 Justin Bergman USA 793
93 Calvin Coker USA 791
96 Oscar Dominguez USA 790

That looks like seven, but you might discount the recent arrival. Also, Dechaine and Bergman and Dominguez rarely play in major events now. Amazingly, Oscar's total earnings this year total $200. Not sure who Calvin Coker is, but judging by his earnings, the listing might be a glitch.

So, that leaves two or three active US players in the top 100.
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List is a glitch but then again they might be keeping track of majors.

He wins often at his own tournaments at Hard Times. He did just lose to Jeremy Long at this weekend memorial tournament.
 
A viewpoint from Europe: I have been playing for almost 35 years with active in tournaments for +30 years. Despite having a +10 year hiatus from pool tournaments now with family taking up my time, I have been number one ranked player in Finland early 00's and also represented Team Finland in European Championships and have +700 Fargo. I have never won 4-figs from a pool tournament, ever. My highest payday IIRC was last years WNT Taom Open 700€ ($750) when I reached single elimination and went out against Alcaide. There are hardly any tournament that pays over 2k for the winner and the top spots are almost always occupied with world class players such as Makkonen and Matikainen. I am not bitter and complaining, it's just the tough food chain here. And when I see reports on youngsters winning thousands of dollars in ie. CSI and VNEA bar box events and/or Fargo limited tournament or whatnot, I can't help wondering if abovementioned is truly the case. You don't have to bring your game up to the national top level in order to win several grands or even +10k. I think many players think that they are already there after scoring some nice cashes. And they get too comfortable and a true I would say old school killer instinct cannot truly develop whey you are not really fighting for a dime and a nickel.
 
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