Good players who do not look very good, while at the pool table, but still consistently run out.

Do you ever go up against a player, in a tournament for example, who in your opinion, just does not look very good at the table, but still consistently runs out, and plays good?


It kind of blows my mind, how a player can have what seems to me to have a horrible stroke, always an open hand bridge, for example, and just not look very good, but still able to get out, and play good consistently.


No flashy bridge (boring open hand bridge), no flashy stroke (slow, but straight), and consistently running out, and playing really good.


It just amazes me.


I don't know, but I guess there are a lot of really good players like that. Nothing flashy about their stroke. Maybe just uses an open hand bridge most of the time. And, they are able to consistently run out, and do not make many mistakes.


I am talking over 650 Fargo players, which is fairly strong.


I respect good players, no matter how boring their game looks, but what I really love to see are the more flashy type of players.


I guess that in this game, you do not need a flashy stroke, or all the cool bridge hands, like the classic Johnny Archer bridge hands, or that classic Johnny Archer 90's prime style, that as a 90's kid, I tried my best to copy.


You can have the most boring style of play ever, and still be able to play really strong.


I just love playing against the more flashy types of players, if that makes any sense.


Gosh, to be honest, I am just not very good anymore. And, rarely play anymore. I go down to this local tournament sometimes, which always maxes out a 32 player field, and none of the players look to be any good at all. And, I never do well in it, because I too just suck. Because I just never play anymore. It would be so cool just get to see some really good players though, and it never happens. It is a real bummer though, losing to these guys, who are really not that good. And, my Fargo keeps going down. Anyways, back to my point. I love competing against players who are more plashy, and have a nice stroke, if that makes any sense. All these guys just look so boring to me. But lol, I still can't beat them. So, I guess I suck even worse then they do, lol. Where are all the cool Flashy A players at though? Those are the guys who I would much rather lose to, lol.
 
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Mike Davis has the worst see saw stroke I’ve ever seen bit he does nothing but run out lol

Willie hoppe had a terrible side arm stroke that you would never teach anyone and he became the greatest billiards player of all time.

Some people are just born with a natural gift for things that bad mechanics can’t hurt.. other mortals like me need great mechanics to make a ball. Life isn’t fair 😂
 
Mike Davis has the worst see saw stroke I’ve ever seen bit he does nothing but run out lol

Willie hoppe had a terrible side arm stroke that you would never teach anyone and he became the greatest billiards player of all time.

Some people are just born with a natural gift for things that bad mechanics can’t hurt.. other mortals like me need great mechanics to make a ball. Life isn’t fair 😂

Just once, I want to walk into a pool hall, and see just one young Johnny Archer, or SVB, in their prime. They had such awesome mechanics, and strokes. And, such amazing natural ability, I assume. Now all I see are a ton of C players and an A player, who looks like he sucks, lol.

Where in America are the really exciting players to watch?

Keith Mccready had that side arm stroke, but it looked cool in my opinion, and he was fun to watch.
 
Gene Nagy ran 430 at 14.1 with a stroke that was very unorthodox.

It is so often said on the forum - if your stroke is 100% repeatable, even if it is not orthodox, you are set up for success.

A stroke needs to be consistent for about two inches. Not necessarily straight. That leave a lot of room for unorthodox strokes. Seems like there are more odd strokes than textbook ones at the highest levels sometimes. Less true lately but I think long hours alone on a pool table when young led to a lot of the unusual strokes. Hard to call them wrong when they are effective.

Hu
 
Mike Davis has the worst see saw stroke I’ve ever seen bit he does nothing but run out lol

Willie hoppe had a terrible side arm stroke that you would never teach anyone and he became the greatest billiards player of all time.

Some people are just born with a natural gift for things that bad mechanics can’t hurt.. other mortals like me need great mechanics to make a ball. Life isn’t fair 😂
That is also my 1st choice. :)
 
And Scott announced the match.
Saying....
Next match up is..............
''TKO from FLA.''
The ko was attached as the ''knock out'' punch stroke he threw at the field.
It is quite different.
But he hit em square that day/week. :)
 

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....if your stroke is 100% repeatable, even if it is not orthodox, you are set up for success.
Yes, the unorthodox styles can be made to work, but I think they will take longer to make work and are less reliable under pressure/fatigue/ageing. In my view, players should put in a reasonable effort on orthodox mechanics before they wander off into the world of amazing idiosyncrasies.

Should Willie Hoppe have changed from a sidearm stroke to a standard pendulum? Would he have played better? Impossible to tell. When Welker Cochran was a teenager, he got a coach who changed his arm to vertical and his stroke to perfectly straight. Did that help or hurt him? Also impossible to tell. According to legend, Hoppe learned as a pre-teen to make what he had work because his father would beat him if he missed. Also, his family was supported by his billiards, which was a pretty good incentive to make shots.

For learning the game, I think simpler is better. Many players fix one problem by layering on a compensating problem.
 
Yes, the unorthodox styles can be made to work, but I think they will take longer to make work and are less reliable under pressure/fatigue/ageing. In my view, players should put in a reasonable effort on orthodox mechanics before they wander off into the world of amazing idiosyncrasies.

Should Willie Hoppe have changed from a sidearm stroke to a standard pendulum? Would he have played better? Impossible to tell. When Welker Cochran was a teenager, he got a coach who changed his arm to vertical and his stroke to perfectly straight. Did that help or hurt him? Also impossible to tell. According to legend, Hoppe learned as a pre-teen to make what he had work because his father would beat him if he missed. Also, his family was supported by his billiards, which was a pretty good incentive to make shots.

For learning the game, I think simpler is better. Many players fix one problem by layering on a compensating problem.
Nothing 'wrong' with a 'Side-Arm' stroke as long as it's delivered 'Straight'!

From Bud Harris, he told me Professor Perkins taught Cochran.

Cochran was instrumental in Jimmy Lee's game and in turn, Lee helped Bud's game.
 
Nothing 'wrong' with a 'Side-Arm' stroke as long as it's delivered 'Straight'! .
I agree with that (except for a possible durability/longevity issue), but from the videos I've seen, Hoppe did not deliver the cue straight. He had quite the swoop.
 
I agree with that (except for a possible durability/longevity issue), but from the videos I've seen, Hoppe did not deliver the cue straight. He had quite the swoop.
Well, I'll assume He evolved the 'Swoop' to be 'Consistent!

Many Top 3C players of the early 20th Century had Side-arm strokes.

I believe 'Early learning age' is a Big part of it.

BTW, Efren had one of the Worst 'Rolling/up & down' strokes I'd seen when he first came around!
 
That side stroke should be taught. It moves as straight as any pendulum.
Without the side stroke your upper arm is vertical, so the cue only moves up and down (no sideways movement). With the side stroke your upper arm is not vertical, so the cue moves up and down and sideways.

pj
chgo
 
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