Agree. At that level they'd could play in the parking lot and get out.
Fargo Ratings
- Thread starter Island Drive
- Start date
Way before Fargo, when I learned to play pool, I have literally not played a single game on a 7-foot table till about 5 years into playing LOL.
Every pool hall in the Boston area and suburbs had 9 footers back in the 80s and 90s.
I never played on em till I moved to New Orleans in the 70's.
Midwest/grew up on GC's 1's.
Sound like your situation. First time I ever saw a bar box was a Valley 6' at the Showbar/Janscos/Johnson City in my college years. boy howdy what a time, Lassiter/Crane and the rest of em.
Midwest/grew up on GC's 1's.
Sound like your situation. First time I ever saw a bar box was a Valley 6' at the Showbar/Janscos/Johnson City in my college years. boy howdy what a time, Lassiter/Crane and the rest of em.
My rating was created on both.
From what I have seen with the eye test, EVERYONE plays worse on a 9', and better on a 7'. Does not matter which table they play more on.
From what I have seen with the eye test, EVERYONE plays worse on a 9', and better on a 7'. Does not matter which table they play more on.
This makes sense, right? Pretty much any individual task is easier on the 7-foot table and harder on the 9-foot table.
Of course it does.
Some people think a player can only play on one or the other. The game is the same. Balls and a stick.
Here's another thing that trips people up.
Imagine Victor grows up playing on 7-foot tables only and Hugo grows up playing on 9-foot tables only. Both players get to the point they can beat the 9-Ball ghost 15% of the time on their usual table. We'd I think all agree Hugo is a better player because that task is more impressive on the 9-foot table.
What some envision is that both players are rated, say, 600, and that Hugo is a solid 600 and Victor is some kind of watered-down bar-table 600. But that's not what happens. What happens is Hugo, the better player, is a 600, and Victor is a 550.
My answer is simple. And this applies to literally everything in life. I will lean towards the mountain of data every time rather than the person who only uses their own personal "experience".
OK.....
OK then, glad we got that settled.
So fr discounts 7' play?
Seems clear to me. Tale of two players. Player 7 only played on a bar box. Player 9 only played on a big table. Both achieved a 700 FargoRate. Player 7 had to spend 10,000 hours to achieve that rating. Player 9 only had to spend 5,000 hours to achieve that rating.
And their strengths are slightly different. Player 7 might move a little better in small spaces. Player 9 has better fundamentals and pocketing. And maybe Player 7 having weaker pocketing abilities is a big deal and to compensate he plays significantly better patterns (like a 750) but his weaker fundamentals clocks him down to a 700 speed.
And when the two match up whether on a bar box or big table their outcomes are reasonably close. But if you were to bet it might be a good idea to give the edge to Player 7 on a bar box and Player 9 on the big table because they might have a little specialty knowledge that’ll come into play.
And their strengths are slightly different. Player 7 might move a little better in small spaces. Player 9 has better fundamentals and pocketing. And maybe Player 7 having weaker pocketing abilities is a big deal and to compensate he plays significantly better patterns (like a 750) but his weaker fundamentals clocks him down to a 700 speed.
And when the two match up whether on a bar box or big table their outcomes are reasonably close. But if you were to bet it might be a good idea to give the edge to Player 7 on a bar box and Player 9 on the big table because they might have a little specialty knowledge that’ll come into play.
JABSolstice
Well-known member
Exactly.
Fargo Rate doesn’t consider table size, right? Only the outcomes of previous matches against Rated players on any tables?
pj
chgo
JABSolstice
Well-known member
Correct.
There is no such thing as a 750 "bar table only" player.
Here is one example: railbirds "labeled" Skylar Woodward as a "bar-box player". He was at DCC every year from when he was about 12. I saw him there with my own eyes running to every table when it was free between matches to hit balls on it.
Who's the other guy labeled as a "bar box specialist".... Dave Matlock. Yeah right, guy probably played on 9' tables 10 times as much as 7' in his career.
It looks like the answer can't be YES to both of these. But it kind of is.
What goes into the calculation engine is just date, opponent, and W or L for each game, consistent with what Pat asks here.
But there are 58 million of these games. And bundled together they form a highly connected network or fabric --the Fargo Graph. -We normally talk about how this network connects players (amateurs to pros, men to women, Asians to Europeans, etc).
But this network also implicitly connects the equipment they are playing on.
Lets refer to a JOURNEYMAN player on particular equipment as a player who beats the 9-Ball ghost 15% of the time. So we can imagine
J1--a bucketbox journeyman
J2- a league-cut 7-foot Diamond journeyman
J3- a 5"-pocket older 9-foot Gold Crown journeyman
J4- a 4.5"-pocket 9' Diamond Pro Am journeyman
J5- a 4"-pocket 9' with deep shelf and stingy facings journeyman
There might be a 50-point gap in skill between each one of these journeyman levels. Let's guess 500, 550, 600, 650, and 700. These gaps--whatever they actually are--are baked into the network. Further even more subtle differences in conditions are baked into the network. It is in that sense that the network includes implicitly information about the relative difficulty of equipment. The system knows that a J4 loses to a J5, beats a J3, and beats J2 and J1 by progressively bigger amounts.
If someone plays all the time on a bar box with bucket pockets, they're going to have to beat the pants off that J1 journeyman opponent before FargoRate sees them as similarly skilled to a J3 journeyman.
It's not that FargoRate sees the different tables as the same. It doesn't. It's that you can connect into the highly coupled network with play on any of these different tables.
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Yep/Par three's vs Par 5 course's.
The long ball....
Love the ''eye test''.... giggle
.When you think about a player like Filler and such, steppin' up playing and now beating the best one pocket players in the world at a game he never knew, tells me this.
He understands board play.... & feels and understands natural ball movements.
His awareness and ability to incorporate change after few mistakes is threating to any opponent.