2025 Reyes Cup, Oct 16-19, Manilla. Team Asia vs Team World
- Thread starter jbart65
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See what I mean, your conclusion was heavily weighted by Fedor and FSR performance. Maybe you would care to explain the actual game count that is currently happening in the Reyes Cup.
I sure hope so, Jay. The last thing we need is to relive the Jeddah experience, where elite professionals far too often performed in a near-empty arena.
I'll explain it for you. There's a big difference between winning a rack and winning a match. Fargo is fantastic, but winning big matches is the only thing that really matters when it comes to predicting something like the Reyes Cup, and Asian players have been dominating in rotation pool of late in the biggest matches. They are the ones that have shone brightest when the stakes have been highest.
As Team ROW has learned the hard way, it isn't easy to beat a team of champions who are in good form.
As for coaching, I think it can have an effect, but it's not so much about practice sessions. The coach needs to get the players heads in the right places. I think that's Johan's talent as demonstrated in the two times he coached Team USA. But except for Johan, I'd agree that the US coaches have not helped much.
An anecdote:
I watched a Mosconi Cup in the UK in 2012. Johan had the Euro team practicing together in their practice room and working on specific match scenarios. I think he may have had a shot timer.
On the other hand, the only member of the US team I ever saw in their practice room was the coach. There were rumors of all-night partying and stuff. The final score was 11-9 Yurop.
I think JJ's strategy is clear now. Let Team Asia get to the hill in the first match tomorrow. They'll let up in their over confidence and Team ROW will sweep 10 in a row. Yeah, that's the ticket.
An anecdote:
I watched a Mosconi Cup in the UK in 2012. Johan had the Euro team practicing together in their practice room and working on specific match scenarios. I think he may have had a shot timer.
On the other hand, the only member of the US team I ever saw in their practice room was the coach. There were rumors of all-night partying and stuff. The final score was 11-9 Yurop.
I think JJ's strategy is clear now. Let Team Asia get to the hill in the first match tomorrow. They'll let up in their over confidence and Team ROW will sweep 10 in a row. Yeah, that's the ticket.
I watch the professional snooker....
From early on, Stephen Hendry had a coach and He became world champ....7 times!
Recently I was watching Shaun Murphy . who also playing great right now...
during the match the commentators mentioned Shaun was with a specific, popular snooker coach.
Pool player would certainly achieve greater results too, having professional coaches, like the snooker players... IMO.
A lot of the snooker players are millionaires
I just listened to Daz on FB….I liked everything he said….that’s who ROW needed in their corner.
Reminds me of what Napoleon said of English soldiers “Give me English soldiers and French officers and I’ll conquer the world.”
Actually, Johan coached Team USA 3 times, and in his first attempt in 2017, Team USA lost 11-4. In his three years coaching Team USA combined, Team USA won 26 matches and lost 28 matches. It's not as if he turned Team USA into some kind of juggernaut. Yes, he was a very solid coach.
It can be argued that JJ has made the same mistake Napoleon made. Metaphorically, he has walked us so deep into the Russian winter that there's no possible escape without a lot of bloodshed. Thankfully, it's only pool and exile to Elba seems improbable.
I don't agree, but I am just an engineer so I can be wrong. The stats guys can weigh in if they want to.
I believe matches can be decided on a single rack and with 9 ball, slops can play a factor. To me, games would a better indicator like Mike did, but the sample has to be more reflective of the situation being compared to.
If all the players were equally represented in Mike's table I think the results would have been different.
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That podcasts dropped some serious wisdom bombs about the Reyes Cup, and a few hit areas I hadn’t even thought about.
The breakdown of the event was eye-opening, especially when it came to what really needs adjusting. I’m not pointing fingers at the players or coaches, though. It’s the professionalism that could use a tune-up. Rivalries are great fun, but a few boundaries got blurred this week.
I may just be a virtual railbird, but I learned a lot today. Fantastic podcast with Darren Appleton, easily one of the best!
Correct, such a sample might be difficult to get.
So sjm might have a point where overall match wins over a recent period should be the indicator. The match wins should count against everyone played not just Asia vs ROW.
I guess if you start the 10 players with an 800 fargo and calculate their fargo over the last 12 months for all matches they played in major tournaments that might be and indicator. Not sure if I know what I am talking about
I'm a quant, too, having placed high in some national mathematics competitions, admittedly nearly fifty years ago. I'm also well versed in statistical methods. Fargo has no bigger fan than me, and I feel it has added something of great importance to our sport.
If I'm allowed to get technical here, statistical analyses such as Fargo are built around the assumption of statistically independent successive trials. Yes, the central limit theorem says that over a very large sample size, all distributions will gradually tend toward a normal (bell-shaped) distribution. Still, mathematical and statistical methods do not always properly account for the intangible called momentum, and to deny its existence is an oversight. As far as winning goes, in recent months, Asia has all the momentum in both matches and in total racks.
I doubt anyone truly believes that successive racks at the Reyes Cup are statistically independent. Asia has all the momentum, and momentum itself can, at times, be at odds with the assumptions that underly statistical methods.
Nobody would ever suggest that Asia is 9-1 better than ROW but they have ridden the great momentum they've enjoyed for a few months now to their convincing lead.
Correct, such a sample might be difficult to get.
So sjm might have a point where overall match wins over a recent period should be the indicator. The match wins should count against everyone played not just Asia vs ROW.
I guess if you start the 10 players with an 800 fargo and calculate their fargo over the last 12 months for all matches they played in major tournaments that might be and indicator. Not sure if I know what I am talking about
i'm guesstimating that chua and manas would be lower than moritz and FSR
What were seeing has little to do with math or stats. We are watching a mental breakdown.
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Less than 20. In 40 recent years.