Question about tip shape...

Bamacues

Bamacues

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I have been at this game for over 60 years.

Pretty much all I ever heard or saw was "nickel or dime" shaped playing tips.

Recently, it appears that some of the top-level players are using tips that are almost totally flat.

Some even (especially snooker players) appear to have intentional "mushroom" built into their tip install.

Am I imagining things? Is there a particular logic to the cue tip shapes that I am not getting?
 
The basic principle is that the tip’s surface must be parallel with the CB’s surface in order to make good non-slip contact. For that the tip must have a curved surface with an arc equal in degrees to the arc of the CB’s surface between its left and right miscue limits - i.e., at least 60 degrees. For common cue tip sizes (10-14mm), that means curvatures from a dime to a penny radius or so. Tips flatter than that will hit on their edges before reaching the miscue limits.

pj
chgo
 
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I would think more contact with the ball.

I am sure the normal tip shape morons will step it and give their opinions and back it up with data that exists because it's their data and exists no where's else.
 
One of the things I do when I go to a tournament and play the occasional champion is to sneak a peek at their cue tips.

And my observation has been that you are indeed correct with all of them playing with pretty flat tips, like a nickel or maybe even a quarter radius.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
One of the things I do when I go to a tournament and play the occasional champion is to sneak a peek at their cue tips.

And my observation has been that you are indeed correct with all of them playing with pretty flat tips, like a nickel or maybe even a quarter radius.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

I'm curious. Is it that it can work better for expert players for some reason but has less margin for error? Just personal preference? New trend?

Camera views can be misleading but was watching some match on YT the other night and noticed what appeared to be the same thing, then watched another and one seemed pretty flat, but I wouldn't want to bet much on it from my armchair.
 
Bamacues said:
I have been at this game for over 60 years.

Pretty much all I ever heard or saw was "nickel or dime" shaped playing tips.

Recently, it appears that some of the top-level players are using tips that are almost totally flat.

Some even (especially snooker players) appear to have intentional "mushroom" built into their tip install.

Am I imagining things? Is there a particular logic to the cue tip shapes that I am not getting?
Click to expand...
Where can I see this?
 
Some people have 'anal-tip-retention' and others don't. I've known great players that were HYPER sensitive to tip shape/dress and others that could not care less. Shape it how you like and quit using other player's, regardless of speed, likes/dislikes as your yardstick.
 
I put on tips a few years at tournaments years back, I don’t recall hardly anyone wanting anything other than a dime. Including top local players (730 range).
 
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I've been thinking about trying it just as a curiosity. I'm guessing it would be a struggle for me since I tend to use more english than needed, but just for fun I'd like to compare long straight in shots with a flat vs a quarter just to see if there is improvement.

In theory, if you have a 13mm flat tip you can probably hit about 5mm (maybe more) off center and still have the same effect as hitting center ball.

I can't find it now, but there was a YT video probably 6ish years ago where a guy had drilled an 1/8" hole in the center of the tip and he claimed it made center ball shots very easy. If I remember correctly, he left the rest of the tip shaped and claimed he could still apply english. If your pattern play is good enough that you can use natural angles to move the cue ball, a flat (or at least flatter) tip might be helpful.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The basic principle is that the tip’s surface must be parallel with the CB’s surface in order to make good non-slip contact. For that the tip must have a curved surface with an arc equal in degrees to the arc of the CB’s surface between its left and right miscue limits - i.e., at least 60 degrees. For common cue tip sizes (10-14mm), that means curvatures from a dime to a penny radius or so. Tips flatter than that will hit on their edges before reaching the miscue limits.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
P.S. I wonder if this is why snooker players like mushroomed tips... makes 'em a little wider to hold a bit more curve?

pj
chgo
 
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Kinda surprised that mechanical engineering hasn't responded. 🤔
Patrick Johnson said:
P.S. I wonder if this is why snooker players like mushroomed tips... makes 'em a little wider to hold a bit more curve?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Well not All. It might be majority. Mark Williams has a very hard tip. Not sure of the radius. His tip plays a distinct note on contact with white.
 
A hard tip will have a smaller footprint than a soft tip of same dimensions.
The only flat tip I have noticed was on a jump cue. A rock hard tip that's flat. 🤔 Well flat would give a slightly larger footprint than a dime radius. 🤷‍♂️ just my best guess. 😉
 
I've always liked a nickel radius on my playing cue and after a while, once it's settled in a little, I usually don't reshape it too much so that it does flatten out a little right in the middle of the tip, but it's still mostly a nickel radius.

On my break and jump cues though I do like it flatter, I have this weird curved piece of plastic that probably has curve that would match up to a 2-3" diameter circle, so much bigger and therefor flatter than a nickel. I shape my break and jump tips with this and then use my nickel shaper just for the shoulders. So this gives a compound radius to the tips with a pretty flat center portion but normal shoulders to help avoid any miscues on errant strokes.
 
A slight variation in the shot line with a dime radius results in a variation of the cueball path. By flattening the tip the same variation in shot line will yield a smaller impact on the line of travel. My calculation is. .175 percent. 😉
 
If/when you watch Dr Dave's high frame rate videos of cue-tip to cue-ball contact, you will see that the cue tip moves around like jelly.

An oversized piece of jelly (mushroom) at the end of the shaft cannot increase the friction between Cue-tip and CB.
 
lfigueroa said:
One of the things I do when I go to a tournament and play the occasional champion is to sneak a peek at their cue tips.

And my observation has been that you are indeed correct with all of them playing with pretty flat tips, like a nickel or maybe even a quarter radius.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
As they should be. :)
 
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