Filler at The Derby 2/1/2026 Just won against Shane 9 B 9-0

[Maxx]

Seems the world is committed to slowing down the best 9ball player of this generation, and possibly the best 9ball player that ever lived. At the Derby, they have tweaked the break year after year and they reintroduced jump cues which were banned for decades at the Derby. It doesn't really matter, Filler succeeds at the Derby 9ball year after year and has set the bar so high that, at times, it seems unfair .... but it is fair!

I couldn't be happier for SVB, the 2026 Derby City Master of the Table, but when it comes to 9ball, he is no Josh Filler, and he never played 9ball at the level that Josh Filler exhibits today.

I wonder if you have some bias against SVB, “I couldn’t be happier…. , but ….”. That’s just the feeling I get, that you’re reluctant to give Shane his due. I know you’re knowledgeable and probably pay a lot more attention to all things pool than I do, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. I definitely appreciate your write ups of events, they’ve great!
Shane’s been around for quite a while, and he’s not done yet.
There was a long period when Shane dominated 9-ball. Shane’s about 14 years older than Filler, so the jury is still out. Filler was around 18 when Shane finished his run at the US Open (I know people say the fields were not as tough), so are they of the same generation?.
Filler was definitely on fire in 9-ball at the derby though, but Shane, at 42 years old, won the all around!

 

[sjm]

I wonder if you have some bias against SVB, “I couldn’t be happier…. , but ….”. That’s just the feeling I get, that you’re reluctant to give Shane his due. I know you’re knowledgeable and probably pay a lot more attention to all things pool than I do, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. I definitely appreciate your write ups of events, they’ve great!
Shane’s been around for quite a while, and he’s not done yet.
There was a long period when Shane dominated 9-ball. Shane’s about 14 years older than Filler, so the jury is still out. Filler was around 18 when Shane finished his run at the US Open (I know people say the fields were not as tough), so are they of the same generation?.
Filler was definitely on fire in 9-ball at the derby though, but Shane, at 42 years old, won the all around!

I was delighted to have the opportunity to congratulate SVB in person for his great achievement. Perhaps it is lost on you how difficult it is to win the Master of the Table when Fedor Gorst is present, let alone to win it when you haven't won it in over a decade. Gorst, Master of the Table in three of the previous four Derby City Classic events, offers as stiff a challenge to any would-be all-around champion since Efren did in 1999-2010. It was a wonderful story, and I stayed for the award ceremony to see Shane get his Master of the Table check. Well done!

FYI, Filler, who is just 28, has a resume of majors that already exceeds that of Shane, and the gap will greatly widen in the coming years. Filler has won the World 9-ball, the UK Open, the US Open, the China Open, World 8-ball, the Qatar Open, the European 9ball, the European 14.1, the European 10ball, the American 14.1, the Derby City 9ball, the Derby City banks, the Derby City Master of the Table, the Buffalo Billiards one-pocket, the World Pool Masters, the World Cup of Pool, double digit Euro-tour titles and has been a Mosconi MVP. Just for good measure, he also has a silver at the World 10ball. He is the most prolific collector of major titles in the entire 9ball era. His is the most complete competitive resume since the days of Mike Sigel, and it will greatly exceed that of Mike Sigel before he hangs up his cue. In fact, for most of his career, SVB had an uninspiring record on foreign soil, while Filler has won on every continent on a regular basis for the length of his career. Perhaps you need to do a little more research if you think SVB's career is on a par with that of Filler. As SVB had noted in interviews, Josh has worn him out for the length of his career at 9ball.

But for now, it is time to celebrate Shane's special accomplishment this past week at the Derby. I felt truly honored to have seen it up close. Shane carried Derby week and he has the prize money checks to prove it! SVB is a legendary player and will always be counted among the greatest in pool history.

 

[Frosty]

Someone must agree with me a little bit because they keep experimenting with rules. Racking the nine on the spot, break boxes, rotating the break, smaller pockets, and so on.

The powers that be recognized the game could be improved. One crazy thing they could do is create a neutral ball so that they can be racked as 10 ball. Then remove the neutral ball after the break, Or just play 10 ball.
I must say I do prefer winner breaks but no Hill games, you must win by two.

I don’t know who is to be credited to as being the one who initially said it, but I’ve heard many say it over the years, “pool is the cruelest of games”. It truly is, because in its purest form, you’re not guaranteed a turn at the table, and if you don’t take advantage of the opportunities you do get, you’re not guaranteed another opportunity.

The break is key not only in 9 ball, but in all disciplines of pocket billiards, 10 ball, 1 pocket, banks, 14:1, Snooker. Why, because it’s all about controlling the table.

This isn't golf or other sports where “everyone gets a turn”. The funny thing is, all those here that are enthusiasts of the this beautiful game all learn this very early on when they take up the game. To me, it’s one of its most beautiful aspects.

You mention there must be others that agree with you and reference the constant “tinkering with the rules”. That’s something that’s only really occurred in the last 20 years or so, and you say “the powers that be recognized that the game can be improved”. That’s subjective as I and many I speak with don’t consider these rule changes improvements, it’s more like appeasing whiners that have forgotten what I mentioned above that you learn early on in this game, you’re not guaranteed a turn, and need to take full advantage of the opportunities you get. The game shouldn’t be changed because some people, through hard work and dedication rise to a skill level that others don’t aspire to, or can’t achieve. Those of tender sensibilities should play 3 cushion or other forms where you’re guaranteed a turn, or pick a new sport where everyone gets a turn to play like golf or bowling.

 

[JPB2]

Those of tender sensibilities should play 3 cushion or other forms where you’re guaranteed a turn, or pick a new sport where everyone gets a turn to play like golf or bowling.

I’ve mentioned before that borrowing a rule from the series games in billiards might end some of the complaints about the possibility of a set being run and a player never getting a shot. That is the rule from balkline that if the breaker runs the game, the other player gets the break shot and a chance to match the 400 or whatever run. (3C has a similar equalizing inning rule). Although I don’t think it is really necessary, the idea of someone running a set and then giving the non shooting player a chance to match could be dramatic. If a set were run and the other player then stepped up and started running racks, it would get tense after 3 or 4 wouldn’t it?

But even if this rule were in place, it would be a strict rule. The non shooting player would have to have had no appearances at the table at all. The set would have to be truly run - each rack a B&R. Handing back a push out would count as an appearance at the table, no equalizing inning for that player.

I don’t think this rule is needed really. I would favor it more if the players flipped for the break - a lag means you had a chance to run the set- but I understand not wanting a match decided by the lag. (As can happen in those balkline matches)

It is rare for a set to be fully run. It happens in shorter race bar table events sometimes, so I hear, but it still is rare. Race to 9 on a 9’ just doesn’t happen very often. I’d love to see it. As I’ve said elsewhere, people overestimate the B&R percentage pretty consistently IMO, including in those shorter race bar table events. The best of the balkline/ free game players are way more likely to run a game than a pool player running a reasonable length set out I think.

 

[sjm]

I don’t know who is to be credited to as being the one who initially said it, but I’ve heard many say it over the years, “pool is the cruelest of games”. It truly is, because in its purest form, you’re not guaranteed a turn at the table, and if you don’t take advantage of the opportunities you do get, you’re not guaranteed another opportunity.

The break is key not only in 9 ball, but in all disciplines of pocket billiards, 10 ball, 1 pocket, banks, 14:1, Snooker. Why, because it’s all about controlling the table.

This isn't golf or other sports where “everyone gets a turn”. The funny thing is, all those here that are enthusiasts of the this beautiful game all learn this very early on when they take up the game. To me, it’s one of its most beautiful aspects.

You mention there must be others that agree with you and reference the constant “tinkering with the rules”. That’s something that’s only really occurred in the last 20 years or so, and you say “the powers that be recognized that the game can be improved”. That’s subjective as I and many I speak with don’t consider these rule changes improvements, it’s more like appeasing whiners that have forgotten what I mentioned above that you learn early on in this game, you’re not guaranteed a turn, and need to take full advantage of the opportunities you get. The game shouldn’t be changed because some people, through hard work and dedication rise to a skill level that others don’t aspire to, or can’t achieve. Those of tender sensibilities should play 3 cushion or other forms where you’re guaranteed a turn, or pick a new sport where everyone gets a turn to play like golf or bowling.

This is a truly exceptional post, both well-reasoned and well-presented.

 

[skogstokig]

I’ve mentioned before that borrowing a rule from the series games in billiards might end some of the complaints about the possibility of a set being run and a player never getting a shot. That is the rule from balkline that if the breaker runs the game, the other player gets the break shot and a chance to match the 400 or whatever run. (3C has a similar equalizing inning rule). Although I don’t think it is really necessary, the idea of someone running a set and then giving the non shooting player a chance to match could be dramatic. If a set were run and the other player then stepped up and started running racks, it would get tense after 3 or 4 wouldn’t it?

But even if this rule were in place, it would be a strict rule. The non shooting player would have to have had no appearances at the table at all. The set would have to be truly run - each rack a B&R. Handing back a push out would count as an appearance at the table, no equalizing inning for that player.

I don’t think this rule is needed really. I would favor it more if the players flipped for the break - a lag means you had a chance to run the set- but I understand not wanting a match decided by the lag. (As can happen in those balkline matches)

It is rare for a set to be fully run. It happens in shorter race bar table events sometimes, so I hear, but it still is rare. Race to 9 on a 9’ just doesn’t happen very often. I’d love to see it. As I’ve said elsewhere, people overestimate the B&R percentage pretty consistently IMO, including in those shorter race bar table events. The best of the balkline/ free game players are way more likely to run a game than a pool player running a reasonable length set out I think.

they already have this rule at DCC. or used to. if i'm not confused.

 

[JPB2]

they already have this rule at DCC. or used to. if i'm not confused.

Dunno. If they had it, how many times has it been used? My guess is zero.

 

[middleofnowhere]

I don’t know who is to be credited to as being the one who initially said it, but I’ve heard many say it over the years, “pool is the cruelest of games”. It truly is, because in its purest form, you’re not guaranteed a turn at the table, and if you don’t take advantage of the opportunities you do get, you’re not guaranteed another opportunity.

The break is key not only in 9 ball, but in all disciplines of pocket billiards, 10 ball, 1 pocket, banks, 14:1, Snooker. Why, because it’s all about controlling the table.

This isn't golf or other sports where “everyone gets a turn”. The funny thing is, all those here that are enthusiasts of the this beautiful game all learn this very early on when they take up the game. To me, it’s one of its most beautiful aspects.

You mention there must be others that agree with you and reference the constant “tinkering with the rules”. That’s something that’s only really occurred in the last 20 years or so, and you say “the powers that be recognized that the game can be improved”. That’s subjective as I and many I speak with don’t consider these rule changes improvements, it’s more like appeasing whiners that have forgotten what I mentioned above that you learn early on in this game, you’re not guaranteed a turn, and need to take full advantage of the opportunities you get. The game shouldn’t be changed because some people, through hard work and dedication rise to a skill level that others don’t aspire to, or can’t achieve. Those of tender sensibilities should play 3 cushion or other forms where you’re guaranteed a turn, or pick a new sport where everyone gets a turn to play like golf or bowling.

I think where you are missing it, is most players themselves don't care that much about the rules. The tinkering with the rules is mostly to try and create a game that will attract an audience. Regardless of the rules, in most cases the better players almost always going to dominate. It just may not be very interesting to watch. Ever see this match?

https://share.google/E8nnHdUgBwDN2P8hS

 

[Black-Balled]

It wouldn't be for free. Winner would get all the money from the players portion of the streams sold to watch them play. Such a clash would probably bring in a lot of money.

Sounds like it is a freebie for one of them

 

[Black-Balled]

I’ve mentioned before that borrowing a rule from the series games in billiards might end some of the complaints about the possibility of a set being run and a player never getting a shot. That is the rule from balkline that if the breaker runs the game, the other player gets the break shot and a chance to match the 400 or whatever run. (3C has a similar equalizing inning rule). Although I don’t think it is really necessary, the idea of someone running a set and then giving the non shooting player a chance to match could be dramatic. If a set were run and the other player then stepped up and started running racks, it would get tense after 3 or 4 wouldn’t it?

But even if this rule were in place, it would be a strict rule. The non shooting player would have to have had no appearances at the table at all. The set would have to be truly run - each rack a B&R. Handing back a push out would count as an appearance at the table, no equalizing inning for that player.

I don’t think this rule is needed really. I would favor it more if the players flipped for the break - a lag means you had a chance to run the set- but I understand not wanting a match decided by the lag. (As can happen in those balkline matches)

It is rare for a set to be fully run. It happens in shorter race bar table events sometimes, so I hear, but it still is rare. Race to 9 on a 9’ just doesn’t happen very often. I’d love to see it. As I’ve said elsewhere, people overestimate the B&R percentage pretty consistently IMO, including in those shorter race bar table events. The best of the balkline/ free game players are way more likely to run a game than a pool player running a reasonable length set out I think.

That equalizing is just as exciting when the shooter only needs one.

And how to break the tie from there? Brak and run contest....b/r games won being the primary determinant, balls made before miss the secondary one.

 

[skogstokig]

Dunno. If they had it, how many times has it been used? My guess is zero.

idk. bob jewett may know

 

[fjk]

Sounds like it is a freebie for one of them

Better than losing cash though. It's a free roll.

 

[sjm]

I think where you are missing it, is most players themselves don't care that much about the rules. The tinkering with the rules is mostly to try and create a game that will attract an audience. Regardless of the rules, in most cases the better players almost always going to dominate. It just may not be very interesting to watch. Ever see this match?

https://share.google/E8nnHdUgBwDN2P8hS

Much truth here.

Still, the introduction of call-shot rules to 10ball, which was played without call shot for some 60 years, reduced the entertainment value of the game, forcing onlookers, who can rarely hear what shot is being called, to figure out what the player is attempting.

I have always believed that call-shot rules, while necessary in 14.1, had a lot to do with why the straight pool era ended and was replaced by the 9ball era, which offers a faster game played without call shot rules.

I have been chatting with fans for fifty years on a regular basis and for every one that prefers alternate break, there are five that prefer winner breaks for the simple reason that they greatly enjoy seeing pros string racks together. Tournaments that use alternate break are not as entertaining, but some event producers don't care and use it anyway.

These are two examples of rules changes the players wanted and got at the expense of the entertainment value of the game.

I think we're on the same page here. Rules should be geared toward the maximization of the game's entertainment value. Unfortunately, it does not always go that way. I aslo agree that the best players will tend to prevail regardless of rule set.

 

[Badpenguin]

they already have this rule at DCC. or used to. if i'm not confused.

Rules

Home of the Derby City Classic professional billiards tournament hosted by Diamond Billiard Products at Caesar's Southern Indiana Casino and Resort.

www.derbycityclassic.com

 

[maha]

rule changes should be for:

to make the game run more smoothly

to make it more understandable for audiences

to make a playing change so that one aspect does not get to be a major determining factor on who wins.

 

[iusedtoberich]

IDK if Filler's Fargorate has been updated from DCC yet? He is on Feb 4 858/14299. IDK if that is including DCC or not, his games are not public. Would be interesting to see if/how much he went up with his killer performance.

Edit, I do not think they are included yet. I just checked Oscar Dom's games, which are public, and no DCC results in his yet.

 

[sjm]

rule changes should be for:

to make the game run more smoothly

to make it more understandable for audiences

to make a playing change so that one aspect does not get to be a major determining factor on who wins.

Yes, well said!

 

[maha]

thank you stu

 

[Kris_b1104]

IDK if Filler's Fargorate has been updated from DCC yet? He is on Feb 4 858/14299. IDK if that is including DCC or not, his games are not public. Would be interesting to see if/how much he went up with his killer performance.

Edit, I do not think they are included yet. I just checked Oscar Dom's games, which are public, and no DCC results in his yet.

I have no doubt that he will eventually be the first ever 900 FR player in history.

Does anyone know who was the first to hit 800? Or was the 800 rating already established when Fargorate first came out? It's been over a decade I believe.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I have no doubt that he will eventually be the first ever 900 FR player in history.

Does anyone know who was the first to hit 800? Or was the 800 rating already established when Fargorate first came out? It's been over a decade I believe.

It was already there. I think the top guy was Wu at about 815. I have a list somewhere saved.