But it's NOT like Fargo... The AZ ratings were subjective! It's completely different. And stupid.
Nick Varner is a Fargorate 777
- Thread starter iusedtoberich
- Start date
While I'm sure skill on a 7' is highly correlated with skill on a 9', I don't think they're one and the same, especially as one moves down the FR list. I know many bar box heroes who almost never play 9'. When they do, they struggle more than you might expect.
It's much more common in the 550-650 range, but one guy is a 720, all on barbox 8b, with literally not a single game of 9b, 10b, 1p, or anything on a 9'. I'd take many 650s in 9' 9b over him. At least for the first few matches.
But it worked fine for Arizona Bar & Room Owners, it was good for their bottom line...................Catering to the Recreational Player.
Like I said being an 8, was not bad, but when you hit NINE...............Most Tournament were closed to you.
Few 9 and Under. So the only thing was OPEN Tournament's........Very Few.
All leagues and tournaments are on bar boxes up here and I have a 9' Gold Crown in my basement. From my experience if a guy has never seen a 9' table he will struggle, the guys who play occasionally seem to do just fine. I think if you have someone that cant play up to their FR on a big table its probably more metal than anything, the difference between the longest possible shot on each table is less than 24", its really not a big deal when you think about it.
I certainly agree there is a mental aspect to it. There are other elements, too.
The difference in the longest shots on each table is actually around 33", along the diagonal. That's almost half the length of a barbox (80/2 = 40). The length of the average shot on each table is different. People who are accustomed to a certain amount of accuracy on a 7'--balls go in even if they are left or right of center pocket--will find those same shots now rattle with an extra 6"-12" of shot length.
Additionally, folks who learn only on a barbox will not necessarily develop accuracy and consistency with a strong stroke. 7' tables allow for a lot of plink shots. Forced to really stroke it on a 9' like they've rarely had to will cost accuracy and/or cue ball control.
These are all skills players can develop, but they will have to actually develop them.
I had the opposite problem. I own and for a long time played exclusively on 9' tables. When I joined a league that played on 7' I had to learn a lot of under-developed skills: working through congestion, breaking open clusters, shooting very softly--I was over-running everything.
I'm progressing and have gotten better, but I learned to respect what I previously referred to as the "toy tables" more.
According to my math 50" x 100" diagonal is 111.8' and a 40" x 80" (Diamond) is 89.44" diagonally for a difference of 22.36" but my math may be off, I never claimed to be smart.
I agree that most wont develop a stroke as good playing only on small tables, the whole degrading accuracy with increased speed can be seen with increased accuracy playing shots at pocket speed. Its hard not to notice that less than experienced players tend to play most shots way too hard even on barboxes for some reason, one might think developing an accurate firm stroke would develope naturally.
Alas you are correct. My apologies. Worked it too quickly.
My points still stand. (Working slowly now), a barbox has 3200 sq inches of playing area, a 9' has 5000 inches, which means a 9' has over 56% more playing area. On a big table the average shot will be longer--and the subsequent position--and there will be fewer clusters. I am still often surprised at how much firmer I can/need to stroke on a 9' than a barbox, and how lightly I need to hit and how many clusters I need to deal with on a barbox. Someone accustomed to one table size switching to the other will really need to develop areas of their game they hadn't previously.
Again, I think it's much more common in lower FR because anyone who is 800+ likely has practiced many, many hours on all sorts of equipment and is less likely to be unused to anything pool related. And is skilled enough to adapt quite readily (or, worse case, capable enough to still beat most people handily even if their skill drops a speed).
I use 2 different weight cues, 17.7oz on bar box and 20oz on 9'. With my stroke slip this is what works for me.
You are NEW BEE in Arizona, I am Old Salt, and know more then you do, how it was before you came to Arizona.
Lived here 8 years. I played under the old rating system. It was subjective, and stupid. I play almost everywhere in the valley and have never seen you. Keep hiding out in your dive bar talking about the good old days.
Well 8 years is not long, going on 30 years in Valley. I gave up on Tournament thing before you came to Arizona. Places like Northern Lounge, Kolby's, Ox Bar, Kitty's, and Clicks were fun places. They mostly closed, and what is left is not much to my liking. Don't know what is on EastSide, as I do not travel east of 7th. Street in Phoenix. Use too, but don't know more as Kolby’s is gone.
Friend who was a 9 or 10 said it best......Better you get in any Rating System, the less Tournament are to you open to play in. He is from Chicago, he use to gamble, he was always at Pappy in their afternoon ring games, or at Alexander's when that was the place to be. He has been crying about all rating systems almost 30 years. He liked the good old days of the open tournament, and all the gambling that was.
I do not do Dive Bars no more, so per your norm you don't know where I go and when. I am not seeking your autograph, so I am not in hunt to find you.
Must be nice for you to have funds to travel around County to Play in ULTIMATE thing, you not apparently the typical broke Pool Player. Have you ever done the math on your Pool Playing are you making money, after travel, hotels, road food, or not.....If not you might consider change sports to one that has a better return on time, money, etc.
Did not see you either at State One Pocket thing at BullShooter but that is not your GAME RIGHT? That was sad EVENT ARIZONA STATE ONE POCKET CHAMPIONSHIP, 10 Players, not even sure there was add money. Went by to watch, spent 30 plus minutes, went home only saw one player I knew........Hate that being at Kolby they would have had 30 or more in the old days. BullShooter is pit, owner never put profit back in place, it was never clean. Area is dpangerious / unsafe after dark with the Homeless, why would anyone go there?
No I did not enter $250.00, why I would have had ZERO CHANCE of going home with anything but a lighter wallet.
I think one thing about all Rating Systems, they are not perfect, no system could be with all the variables. 8, 9, 10 Ball 14/1, Banks One Pocket, Rotation, large & small table like Diamond, Valley, OldHausen, etc… How can you give anyone a fair Rating. BTW who is filling Pockets with money from FARGO…Follow the Money, and see who is profiting off FARGO? AZRating it was Bar & Room Owner controlling the good players from stealing the tournament pots, but keep the 9's and above out.
Last edited: