Thoughts on players who seemingly take Zero practice strokes, before shooting / final follow through?

What is missing here was supplied by Dr. Dave (see snip below from TP-B26):

If you have a cue with a pivot length that does not match bridge length, you still pivot the cue around it's pivot point, but must use a combination of FHE and BHE. So for an LD shaft with the pivot at 15", the pivoting is still at the 15" point, but requires combination of FHE and BHE.

****
With the bridge length at the natural pivot length of the shaft (B=N), the percentage of
BHE is 100% (P=1), with no FHE pivot.
With a bridge length shorter than the natural pivot length (B<N), the percentage of BHE
is less than 100% (P<1), and the FHE percentage completes the total pivot to 100%.
With a bridge length longer than the natural pivot length (B>N), and the percentage of
BHE is greater than 100% (P>1), with the FHE percentage being the negative of the
excess beyond 100%.
****
 
Not Dead Ted said:
What is missing here was supplied by Dr. Dave (see snip below from TP-B26):

If you have a cue with a pivot length that does not match bridge length, you still pivot the cue around it's pivot point, but must use a combination of FHE and BHE. So for an LD shaft with the pivot at 15", the pivoting is still at the 15" point, but requires combination of FHE and BHE.

****
With the bridge length at the natural pivot length of the shaft (B=N), the percentage of
BHE is 100% (P=1), with no FHE pivot.
With a bridge length shorter than the natural pivot length (B<N), the percentage of BHE
is less than 100% (P<1), and the FHE percentage completes the total pivot to 100%.
With a bridge length longer than the natural pivot length (B>N), and the percentage of
BHE is greater than 100% (P>1), with the FHE percentage being the negative of the
excess beyond 100%.
****
Click to expand...
I've found that unnecessary except for specialty shots, it's a drag mentally to find the pivot point, pivot then slide to where you want to bridge. You can use FHE and BHE visualizing the cue's pivoting at it's pivot point. Two things that I used to do is sharpy a circular line around the shaft at the pivot point, or draw a dot in sharpy on the pivot point. That makes it easier.

You also will run into shots where a ball is sitting where you would need to bridge. You line up the shot, pivot at the pivot point to get the line for the spin you want and keeping the cue on that line, bridge wherever you want; however, you better have a straight stroke for that.

Also if you want to naturally bridge off of the pivot point, there will be zero PP correction for a bad stroke so you better have a straight stroke..
 
Jaden said:
Why do you gotta be a dick about it? I promise you I'm right, you can either learn from it or don't no skin off my junk.


So many people have left this site because of people who like to thumb their noses to those who have and are willing to share the knowledge.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be one way or another about it, but when someone comes on and gives advice that I find to be misleading I'm usually going to dispute it. At 3:10 of your video you tell people to watch Dr Daves video to find the pivot point of their shaft. I'm not sure you watched the whole video. Anyone who does will realize that he spends quite a bit of time explaining that what you tout as gospel doesn't actually work very well.

I'm done after this, I guess the viewers can decide for themselves but I'd advise them to watch Daves video before deciding.
 
sparkle84 said:
I'm not trying to be one way or another about it, but when someone comes on and gives advice that I find to be misleading I'm usually going to dispute it. At 3:10 of your video you tell people to watch Dr Daves video to find the pivot point of their shaft. I'm not sure you watched the whole video. Anyone who does will realize that he spends quite a bit of time explaining that what you tout as gospel doesn't actually work very well.

I'm done after this, I guess the viewers can decide for themselves but I'd advise them to watch Daves video before deciding.
Click to expand...
Well you're an idiot if you watch that video and still think it's misleading. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink. Dave is a physicist. He likes to isolate variables. I like to see what works with all variables included. Dr. Dave is great for what he does. but I would suggest trying it correctly before listening to anyone just talking. I showed it. It's up to you to try it or not.

Funny, earlier I mentioned the story of Joey Aguzin trying it and it working first try for a shot he continuously had trouble with. Guess what, he never used BHE again, even for that shot.

You can choose what you try and what you use, but I would suggest not running your mouth about something that you don't know about, haven't even tried and can't use. Don't call something misleading when you admittedly don't understand it and can't use it.
 
vintagecollectibles831 said:
Yeah, he takes very little time (guessing under 5 seconds, on average), after he gets down on the ball, and seemingly only takes 1 stroke, which is the 1 right before final follow through. He plays really good. Austin Axe. I just find it amazing, about his playing style. Oh, and yeah, he drops down like lightning fast.
Click to expand...
You either see the shot line right away or you don't. I'm fortunate in that even at my age, I'm still able to see it and not waste any time with other unnecessary's. I stay out of my head and just let my body do what it knows how to do after all these years of banging balls.😂
I always played fast like this.
If I thot it about it too much, I'd drop out of stroke, ya know??
 
Now that I watched a few minutes of Austin play, he reminds me of Patch Eye Henry, a 300 ball runner and 1 pocket specialist. I played him myself a few times about 15 years ago in Philly. He was about 80 years old then, and had had a stroke, but still played super strong.

He would get down on the ball, with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth, and about 1" of ash about to fall off of it.... then he'd stay completely still, in the address position, with zero warmup strokes, for what seemed like 5-10 seconds. Then he'd pull back and fire the ball in the hole and play the CB about as good as Efren.
 
Lowell said:
I know loads of people who take a million practice strokes each time and miss shots by a mile on a regular basis.

I speculate that being properly aligned in the first place is considerably more important than how many prestrokes one does, but I'm far from an expert of course.
Click to expand...
Bingo, If your not lined up properly in the fisrt place the first 50 practice strokes won't help IMHO
 
Aj Manas doesn't do any practice strokes either. One thing to be aware of though is if you are watching a match hilite on YouTube it will often look like a player isn't taking practice strokes but they have just been edited out.
 
This started as a thread about those that 1 stroke the ball and turned into a pivot point discussion for those who subscribe to that foolishness.

Thoughts on those that 1 stroke or 1 stroke then fire? They trust in themselves and their training and don’t THINK, about pivot points, BHE or other associated nonsense that hold players plateaued because they can’t get out of their head and stop thinking when they play.
 
Jaden said:
Well you're an idiot if you watch that video and still think it's misleading. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink. Dave is a physicist. He likes to isolate variables. I like to see what works with all variables included. Dr. Dave is great for what he does. but I would suggest trying it correctly before listening to anyone just talking. I showed it. It's up to you to try it or not.

Funny, earlier I mentioned the story of Joey Aguzin trying it and it working first try for a shot he continuously had trouble with. Guess what, he never used BHE again, even for that shot.

You can choose what you try and what you use, but I would suggest not running your mouth about something that you don't know about, haven't even tried and can't use. Don't call something misleading when you admittedly don't understand it and can't use it.
Click to expand...


I know I said I was done with this but I guess I lied. Too much here to ignore.
First would be DR Dave. I'll go out on a limb here and say that 99% of forum readers believe that he's one of the foremost experts on the way pool balls (and equipment) work. He has countless concise, well thought out videos that prove his assertions.

Now you come along and advise people to listen to him to find their shafts pivot point but then indicate that they should ignore everything else he has to say on the subject and do what you say instead. Ok, good luck with that.

This stuff about PP and BHE/FHE has been going on for awhile. It's similar to all the aiming systems, they work, until they don't. You saying it works for the majority of shots is not just misleading it's downright wrong. The bottom line is they only work within certain parameters.

Dave's video clearly shows what happens when speed and distance is introduced, yours does not. You seem to think that he is more theory based while you're more reality based. News Flash: The reality is that speed and distance are very big variables when playing the game of pool.

As for what I know/don't know, understand/or not, what I've tried/haven't tried, your assumptions aren't reality.

Numerous times over the years people have come to me with problems. I watch for awhile to see what's going on. Obviously they have many different issues, but a common one, amongst newer players especially, is an overlong bridge. By that I mean 12 plus inches. My advice is always, shorten your bridge.
Some resist. They say "but that's the pivot point of my shaft". To which I reply "fuck your PP, it's doing nothing to help you play better.
Next biggest piece of advice would be stop hitting the ball so hard. (In many instances that should be first) Third would be slow down.

Paying attention to those things promote accuracy. They help players hit the CB where they intend to hit it. Arguably, according to experts, one of, if not the most important thing, for improvement.

After watching your video we can see that at times, you have a little trouble striking the CB accurately (inside "follow" on the 8 in the side). From very short distance no less. Then there's the way too hard speed used on most shots. Might want to work on those things.

Now I'm done. Shoot well.
 
i always kinda felt like staying down on the ball too long is just giving yourself more time to lose your concentration.

assuming you have a good PSR, timing, and mechanics in general, what more is there reaaaaaallly to think about once you get down? all the little variables of the equation do their little dance in my head and then when its time to go its time to go, assuming my concentration isnt wandering.

a lot of the lower level players i encounter could really stand to do some of that thinking before they get down.
 
sparkle84 said:
On my reply to you I was referring to an average bridge length of somewhere between 8-12". You didn't specify any lengths (very few players bridge in the 4=6" range) so I had to go with that. The 18" thing was a reply to Jaden, not you. Just attempting to kill two birds with one stone, er post.
Even still, I'm wondering what you think a micro adjustment actually is. I wouldn't have any trouble making one with a 6" bridge.
Click to expand...
The adjustments I am referring to a player does on almost every practice stroke till something tells them to commit and shoot.
 
Frosty said:
This started as a thread about those that 1 stroke the ball and turned into a pivot point discussion for those who subscribe to that foolishness.

Thoughts on those that 1 stroke or 1 stroke then fire? They trust in themselves and their training and don’t THINK, about pivot points, BHE or other associated nonsense that hold players plateaued because they can’t get out of their head and stop thinking when they play.
Click to expand...
sparkle84 said:
I know I said I was done with this but I guess I lied. Too much here to ignore.
First would be DR Dave. I'll go out on a limb here and say that 99% of forum readers believe that he's one of the foremost experts on the way pool balls (and equipment) work. He has countless concise, well thought out videos that prove his assertions.

Now you come along and advise people to listen to him to find their shafts pivot point but then indicate that they should ignore everything else he has to say on the subject and do what you say instead. Ok, good luck with that.

This stuff about PP and BHE/FHE has been going on for awhile. It's similar to all the aiming systems, they work, until they don't. You saying it works for the majority of shots is not just misleading it's downright wrong. The bottom line is they only work within certain parameters.

Dave's video clearly shows what happens when speed and distance is introduced, yours does not. You seem to think that he is more theory based while you're more reality based. News Flash: The reality is that speed and distance are very big variables when playing the game of pool.

As for what I know/don't know, understand/or not, what I've tried/haven't tried, your assumptions aren't reality.

Numerous times over the years people have come to me with problems. I watch for awhile to see what's going on. Obviously they have many different issues, but a common one, amongst newer players especially, is an overlong bridge. By that I mean 12 plus inches. My advice is always, shorten your bridge.
Some resist. They say "but that's the pivot point of my shaft". To which I reply "fuck your PP, it's doing nothing to help you play better.
Next biggest piece of advice would be stop hitting the ball so hard. (In many instances that should be first) Third would be slow down.

Paying attention to those things promote accuracy. They help players hit the CB where they intend to hit it. Arguably, according to experts, one of, if not the most important thing, for improvement.

After watching your video we can see that at times, you have a little trouble striking the CB accurately (inside "follow" on the 8 in the side). From very short distance no less. Then there's the way too hard speed used on most shots. Might want to work on those things.

Now I'm done. Shoot well.
Click to expand...
I have to agree that so many of the newer league players I see either have too long of a bridge, hit way too hard for any possible control and don't maintain their tips for shit.
Fortunately, some know I'll stop and take time to work a tip for them. It's all good for the game.
 
Have a pile of family in town. Grand kids everywhere, have not been able to read AZ or this thread.
But this guy needs to be on the list.
One of my all time favorites.
 

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you either have ability or not. if not just play and find what works for you as all these other things are never going to help you without having ability to stroke straight. and not let other thoughts interfere with a simple thing as stroking your cue at a certain point.

if you can do that then you can play well. and if you cant do stroke straight then all the other things wont be any good in helping you.
 
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