OK, but I think you should flip a coin to see whether you lag or flip to see whether you lag or flip for the break.If one player wants to lag and the other wants to flip a coin then I would just lag to see who gets that choice.
Players refusing to lag the ball.
- Thread starter KingSamurai
- Start date
Still, a weak player that is afraid of lagging has slim to none chances to break and run out. Best he’ll do is run a few balls and leave an easier table for the strong player.
A strong player will lag so no issues there.
Another strategy:
"Lag for the break?"
"No, let's flip."
"Never mind. You can have the first break."
That confuses the hell out of some players. They wonder what kind of trick you're pulling.
"Lag for the break?"
"No, let's flip."
"Never mind. You can have the first break."
That confuses the hell out of some players. They wonder what kind of trick you're pulling.
Here’s the trick they are pulling.
If the better player is racing to 6 & you are going to 5 they want the break in the hill / hill game.
Hey, watch your mouth. I'm one of those old fart straight pool guys but JFYI everybody always flipped, even way back in the 60's and 70's. I've done some side action at American 14.1 tournaments and even then we flipped.Between two VERY GOOD layers 'maybe' but at any other level this doesn't mean shit. Every tourn in my area uses a flip. IMO the lag is for old fart straight pool.Everything else? Flip it.
Make a mountain out of a molehill much?
KingSamurai
Member
Not a rule I have called, but I play in leagues and it does get calledMake a mountain out of a molehill much?
Yeahhhhhh, I kind of got the idea you play in leagues, they're the only people who would start such an inane thread. It’s the bar boxes, it causes brain cancer.
UPL?
Some people cheat the flip. I have found this a particular issue in tournaments when I am a stranger.
It has always struck me as ridiculous to flip when we are playing pool the rest of the time anyway, just seems more logical to lag to me and start like we plan to continue. I have flipped coins quite a bit over the years, I have yet to lag to decide anything about a coin flip!
Hu
It has always struck me as ridiculous to flip when we are playing pool the rest of the time anyway, just seems more logical to lag to me and start like we plan to continue. I have flipped coins quite a bit over the years, I have yet to lag to decide anything about a coin flip!
Hu
KingSamurai
Member
I play APA Masters and sometimes BCA. I haven't been too excited about UPL rules, bit they did start up in my area
UPL has the lag mandatory is why I ask. I hated UPL but the lag wasn’t the problem. They do have the rules spelled out on it though, they are proud of their rules for sure. BCA has been no lag no flip IME. Never played APA.
It matters less the number of table runouts versus controlling the table from the very outset after pocketing a OB on the break shot. You can’t do a darn thing sitting in your chair watching your opponent run balls or decide to play a tough safety.
Dropping a ball(s) on the break keeps you in control of the table and that matters most because you can’t win sitting on your ass looking. The higher rated local Fargo players in the Central Valley will make a OB on the break and if they lose shape, or don’t like the shot as much as before, they’ll play a wicked safety even with only a few OBs reman on the table.
The number of times these players drop a OB on the break is 6-7 out of 8 times consistently on a 7’ table. And yes, sometimes they’ll wind up scratching on their break shot but the number of times they make a ball is intimidating. I could never do it because the harder I hit my break shot the less accurate I become on striking the head ball in the rack and I scratch. The noise of their break shots is very loud but more noticeably, it has a consistent sound like a loud clap & gosh, object balls seem to drop.
Personally for me, I will let my opponent break first in matches of at least races to three or more. I’d prefer to play a defensive shot first because if I execute it well, it’ll send a message right away I can play some. But it does backfire and the egg I laid was a loser. But seriously I don’t fret too much about lagging or flipping. Let’s just play.
But it is a thing.Make a mountain out of a molehill much?
There are instructors who have told their students to wait until the opponent's ball is well back towards the kitchen before lagging so they can get a read on table speed. When two such students lag against each other, it can take a very long time. In any case, it is a standard tournament rule that the players will lag at about the same time.Make a mountain out of a molehill much?
if it matters to you, practice lagging with a special controlled stroke speed you can duplicate. then you will win most lags.
but playing 8 ball unless the breaker runs out few games are decided for the breaker.
as he doesnt always make a ball or
he misses a shot and now leaves an open table with less balls or
he plays a safe that doesnt work, or is able to be gotten out of which on the small table is relatively easy. or
it goes back and forth for a few innings. which as ive seen is mostly the case in league players.
it is really a percentage thing as with two equal players that are not really good. how often was the winner of the rack the breaker.
someone got that stat from league play?
but playing 8 ball unless the breaker runs out few games are decided for the breaker.
as he doesnt always make a ball or
he misses a shot and now leaves an open table with less balls or
he plays a safe that doesnt work, or is able to be gotten out of which on the small table is relatively easy. or
it goes back and forth for a few innings. which as ive seen is mostly the case in league players.
it is really a percentage thing as with two equal players that are not really good. how often was the winner of the rack the breaker.
someone got that stat from league play?
I get a lot of requests from students at the APA 3 and 4 level for better breaks. I point out to them that it's just a way for them to get the game started and mostly they have to avoid scratching. A good, solid hit on the head ball is a bonus.
Between two VERY GOOD layers 'maybe' but at any other level this doesn't mean shit. Every tourn in my area uses a flip. IMO the lag is for old fart straight pool.
This is before my time really following the game, but I understand that when Pat Fleming was doing Accu-Stats for the statistics, he determined that overall the breaking player *lost* more games than he won. My guess would be that players like Earl would have been exceptions.
The rule in tournaments was that the player who won a game had the option to break or pass the break.
As a result of his research, Pat would make his opponents break.
I think the stats from [mention]AtLarge [/mention] show that this is no longer the case with professional players. But I wonder if it’s still the case with most amateurs and if the results are different in 8b and 9b. [mention]Mike Page [/mention] might have the answers to those questions if the BCAPL data reflects who is breaking.