Exactly.. players will just figure out how to control that to. The current break is a skill shot making that one in the side. You don’t think so go try it at the consultancy that svb seems to do it. That took practice. Lots of it..
Breaking from the head spot
- Thread starter mnorwood
- Start date
Looks like this is a thing already.
I've been casually following the Sharks Billiards Association, a pro 9 ball league in the Philippines. There are teams, drafts, etc just like the NBA and NFL and other team sports. Quality of play is extremely high - quite a few established 800+ players, and the rest are close to that level.
I just noticed today that they always break from the head spot. Turns out it's an official rule: "9-ball is racked on the spot, and the cue ball must placed on center for break". From what I've seen, it looks like they're just smashing it straight on and hoping a ball falls.
Here's one of their broadcasts from last season's playoffs:
You'll see a few of familiar faces both on the table and in the crowd.
I've been casually following the Sharks Billiards Association, a pro 9 ball league in the Philippines. There are teams, drafts, etc just like the NBA and NFL and other team sports. Quality of play is extremely high - quite a few established 800+ players, and the rest are close to that level.
I just noticed today that they always break from the head spot. Turns out it's an official rule: "9-ball is racked on the spot, and the cue ball must placed on center for break". From what I've seen, it looks like they're just smashing it straight on and hoping a ball falls.
Here's one of their broadcasts from last season's playoffs:
You'll see a few of familiar faces both on the table and in the crowd.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I've often told my buddies that the 1B (head ball) is the only guaranteed ball that you can make, no matter what game or break box. If the money ball is on the spot, or the head ball on the spot, the head ball is still makeable. Once you kind of get a ball going (ex. wing ball in 9B) always focus on making the 1B too. Even with a slug rack the 1B can be made if you inspect the rack.
Currently I think the break format is ok. I mean, the break should be a skill shot but at least they are sending balls all over the place instead of just pussy footing the break. It's a skill shot, develop the skills or hope your opponent hasn't yet done so.
g0ds gReeN
Well-known member
He didn't light incense?
IMHO, the CB should break from the headspot when using a template rack (one on the footspot). Other racked balls are supposed to be random. If you suspect your opponent of intentionally manipulating the order, you should be allowed to insist on re-racking until satisfied otherwise (?). Of course, some might abuse that privilege, attempting a favorable order eventually. The only solution would be a rule change, setting the order of every ball (or at least the 2). Also, shouldn’t using a template eliminate the need to closely inspect the rack (?).
WNT has been 100% successful in its mission. The goal was never to eliminate the players' ability to make a ball on the break, but instead to make it more difficult to run the table after a successful break.
Ask any pro and they will tell you that the cut break makes getting a good shot on the two ball after making the one in the side less likely than in the past. In 2022, when Matchroom both tightened the pockets and implemented the new break rules (9 on the spot, narrow break box), they announced that their purpose was to "get more back and forth" in the play.
Players rarely string many racks anymore in WNT play. Only a few players run more than a three pack even once in a given WNT season. They'd all figure out how to make a ball consistently even if required to break from the head spot, and just as is the case now, they would find it harder to get a decent shot on the two than it was before the changes that were made in 2022.
Whether the tougher break that came with the 2022 changes is what's best for the entertainment value of the game is arguable, but Matchroom got exactly what it wanted.
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This isn’t the NFL. Why is it many that constantly want to tweak rules, essentially making the game into something it’s not, always want to point to other sports to support this lunacy?
The break has been a CONSTANT whine fest since Cory spanked Mika in that US Open final years ago. It has gone as far as alternating breaks at points, which takes away the key aspect of this game, controlling the table. Supporters of that point to tennis.
Bottom line, this isn’t other sports, it’s the cruelest one in its true form, it’s why many of us chose to start to play it. If you don’t like the game, play another one. If you don’t like watching it, watch a different one. As @HawaiianEye said in the second post, you can’t just keep changing the rules.
If you don't like the people using new rules, don't play, don't watch, or make your own rules...
If you build it they will come. lol
Same as if you don't like other people's chalk, change the rules so they have to use the kind you like.
If you can't kick, create jump cues.
If you can't run multiple racks, make the game alternate break.
If you don't have the stamina for double elimination, change the rules and make later matches single elimination.
If you can't move the cue ball, make the cloth and rails faster.
Etc, etc, etc.
I'm sorry but the people changing the rules aren't even playing but yeah, it's no different than, People won't play with 600+ fargo players, make it 580 and below. I can't stand that, but I'm not going out putting on tournies for higher rated players either, so I just keep my mouth shut.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
He didn't light incense?
I might suggest it. I asked him which god he prays too. Wouldn’t tell me haha
No you don’t
Nowhere in my original post did I say I don’t like the break rules as is. I hear the common complaints and offered this topic as a thought experiment. I was hoping for more conversation about the cue ball being on the head spot.
LOL. PLease show me anywhere or anyone to which I've complained about low fargo tourneys being the norm aside from that reference...
g0ds gReeN
Well-known member
Oh, not Buddhist then.
I had assumed because you're in China, it was the only reason I brought up incense. If I could make the moneyball at that rate I'd put up fruit, cooked vegetables with rice/chopsticks, and a cup of hot water on the rails every rack lol
For those interested: I grabbed all of the tourneys reported here on AZB by AtLarge, assembled the data, and created some summaries. The data is all out there an knowable if anyone else wants to look into it. It's pretty interesting.
Overall, 1-on-the-spot vs 9-on-the-spot is a 1.7% difference for make-a-ball percentage. And the B&R percentage is even closer at .4%.
If you just look at the template rack numbers, the pros used to make a ball 87.6% of the time and ran out 39.2% of the time (1-on-the-spot). Now, they make a ball 74.1% of the time, but only run out 26.5% of the time. This is down more than 10% for each. I think the stacked benefit of the being able to control the cue ball, make a ball, and having cleaner layouts had a stacking effect on these numbers making the 1-on-the-spot way more breaker friendly.
Punchline: in the modern 9-on-the-spot era, pros are breaking and running 13% fewer racks (at ~1/4 of the games).
I was actually more surprised by the packages for both 1 / 9 on the spot. The pros still get 4/5 packs regardless of the racking method.
All that said, on the original question, I don't think putting the cue ball on the spot will meaningfully change the game.
-td