The new U S. pro pool tour

JPB2 said:
I can’t think of a sport where the local level or amateur leagues fund the professional level. Why would they? ...
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My understanding is that in Europe, the lower levels of players partly fund the expenses of the higher-level players through their memberships in their clubs and leagues. There are also sponsors at the higher levels.

Why would they? To help the sport. Of course, not all people feel that way.
 
Bob Jewett said:
My understanding is that in Europe, the lower levels of players partly fund the expenses of the higher-level players through their memberships in their clubs and leagues. There are also sponsors at the higher levels.

Why would they? To help the sport. Of course, not all people feel that way.
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Helping the sport is good. And I also think amateur competition should not focus on money. In pool people want that prize money, I get it. But you also need a worthy group to send the donation to. For instance, if the BCA were a more coherent organization and you paid some modest annual fee to play amateur events and $5 a year of that went to pros, I think people might accept that. But BCA split with CSI/BCAPL a while ago, so any league fees aren’t going there. Indirectly maybe the Las Vegas Predator events benefit from that, I dunno. I don’t see US pool having such a group and I don’t know why amateurs should be expected to fund it. Maybe it would help the sport and maybe not. If it is a good spectator event people will pay something to watch it.

Having a healthy amateur sport helps pros to some extent in itself because the equipment manufacturers will sponsor pros. But why should the amateur directly fund the pros? I’m not trying to be obstinate because I see what you are saying, and many on these forums would, and do, willingly support pro pool in one way or another. I know you have. But paying for a gym membership doesn’t include money for the professional strongman competitions does it? This is an example I thought of - trying to think of niche professional sports with a big participation factor. Maybe surfing or skateboarding are like this, I don’t know.

If you have enough amateur participants you have a built in audience. Pool has a lot of participants but hasn’t figured out how to interest enough of those people into watching. I think there may be many reasons for that, but you can’t force people to watch.
 
It's hard to compare Euro/Asian and Middle Eastern programs with the USA. We just don't sponsor non mainstream amateur sports. In the past it was Brunswick that had the pool/snooker/carom world and players in its pocket. Well its just different now. I just feel like the APA could get involved and see where it leads.
 
Baby Huey said:
... I just feel like the APA could get involved and see where it leads.
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I wish that would happen, but the APA leadership would have to have develop the long-range goal to lift the whole sport. I think they -- and a lot of people around pool -- have a narrower focus. Maybe USA Cue Sports can get more people and organizations involved.
 
Baby Huey said:
It's hard to compare Euro/Asian and Middle Eastern programs with the USA. We just don't sponsor non mainstream amateur sports. In the past it was Brunswick that had the pool/snooker/carom world and players in its pocket. Well its just different now. I just feel like the APA could get involved and see where it leads.
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like bob says the club members pay an annual fee and some of it goes to expense sponsoring the ones going to (for example) eurotour. it's not a program per se. the lesser players get sponsoring too when they enter tournaments at their level
 
briankenobi said:
Jaden is right on the fan engagement. If there is a team aspect of it, it is more likely to draw fans. The World Cup is a perfect example. You might not watch or like soccer, but you will root your country on.
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Well, sort of. When the teams represent countries or something bigger, I'm on board. For example, the WPA World Team Championship in February in Las Vegas was captivating and we all enjoy team play at the Mosconi. We all enjoyed the World Cup of Pool.

On the other hand, the folks at Bonus Ball built their entire business model around the idea that what the fans wanted most was team play, and in my opinion, they were wrong.

The team play we've been getting at the mixed doubles in the Predator Pro Billiard Series events has gotten our attention and has drawn some favorable reviews.

Fans love team play, some of the time.
 
sjm said:
Well, sort of. When the teams represent countries or something bigger, I'm on board. For example, the WPA World Team Championship in February in Las Vegas was captivating and we all enjoy team play at the Mosconi. We all enjoyed the World Cup of Pool.

On the other hand, the folks at Bonus Ball built their entire business model around the idea that what the fans wanted most was team play, and in my opinion, they were wrong.

The team play we've been getting at the mixed doubles in the Predator Pro Billiard Series events has gotten our attention and has drawn some favorable reviews.

Fans love team play, some of the time.
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Bonus Ball made two LARGE errors. One, they tried a new game with no familiarity and a different set of balls, even though there was no need for a different set of balls. The 2nd big error, and THIS is the big one. They tried limiting their expenses by having a single location. No team sport has EVER done that and been successful.

A single location in VEGAS of all places, where people go to do specific things and watching obscure, well not obscure, niched sports, is not one of them.

It needs to travel. Sure if it gets big enough, sure, you can do what other sports have done and have arenas or share arenas with other sports, but doing what they do with other major pool events would be fine. Hell, having them as a secondary thing at major events on the second to last or last day could be doable. At least to start.
 
maha said:
if it makes no money or loses it. it is dead in the water no matter who backs it.

that's why you need a dedicated person or business with tremendous business acumen ,that will devote themselves to making money from pool.
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And then everybody complains that the person making it happen is making money.

Pool players are the biggest nits on the planet, there are homeless people living under the bridge next to my place that spend more money and complain less. Pitiful
 
there are ways to make the purse pool huge. but it needs some creative mind or minds to do it. the major hurdle which is a monster to overcome to get some outside money in with the current batch of pro players.

they are a bunch of stoic robots, that no one that isnt a total pool nut will stand to watch for more than a short time.
they need a handler to change all that and control it so the crowd is really partners of the game. and more.

and arrange to have more things going on than just a race of 9 ball. seen one you've seen them all.

many ways to get big numbers watching and interested in participating for bigger dollars. only bigger dollars brings more people. i thought for a short time a ways back, of making the worlds biggest payouts and participation but realized i would have to fight all the nay sayers, and the work needed.
not worth it for most anyone.

pool people think too small. there are still many talking about 1000 or two, dollar prize payouts. that isnt even the size of a decent horse bet on a big race. or a hand in an action medium stakes poker pot. or any gamblers bet on a football game.

i hope jay comes up with something. he can do it.
 
the average regular pool player is not your market in this business unless selling chalk or gloves.

what needs is to change the business so they can also partake in the spending part.
 
Positively Ralf said:
Lots of the blame can be placed on the feet of the Bowlero company. It has taken many bowling alleys and converted them to family centers were bowling is not the focus. That move alone has helped kill off the next generation of pro bowlers.

As for the original post, this isn't anything new. Zuglan's northeast tour has been going strong for what seems like decades now and the top players make some good money playing there. I believe first place is usually around $1200.

The only thing that would turn off so many people about these tours is the fact that many are handicapped. I truly believe there is a place for tours without the need of handicapping. But it would take someone with some deep pockets and running in the red for a while before something like that takes off.
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I bowled Collegiate at NDSU. My opinion of Bowlero is just a string of 4 letter words. I've watched them buy out and ruin great houses.
They've totally destroyed the game and the will of a small amount of houses and organizers are hanging on by their fingernails.
 
its an old time game the new world of people have moved past it. along with horseshoes and croquet,

pool would be gone as well but leagues seemed to have given it a new life.
 
easy-e said:
Agree on the team thing. Here's the problem I see with it though... In AZ we had the Saguaro Cup, like the Mosconi Cup but with the best players from the East Valley going against the best players from the West Valley. It was awesome. After a few years, all of the NON-top players started to complain that they never get picked. So they all created a different team competition. Now they have East vs West for different fargo ranges. Everyone except the players over like 660 can participate. And the Saguaro Cup is dead.

Everything has to be fair, everyone has to be included. It's the way pool seems to work. It reinforces the idea that even pool players don't want to watch pool, they'd rather play.
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Same kind of thing happened with the now Griffin Cup (Arizona vs Vegas)....at first it was all top names from the area...Scott, Mitch Max etc. ....but then they started with the team Fargo cap and it seemed to lose some of the luster.....I get the 1 Female per team concept......but they started with the lower level players to "include" other people....Sure it would be cool to be included on a team representing the state....but the mass viewership wants to see the top players...not a 6-10 inning game of 9-ball.

I found myself watching the last one if the players (like yourself) were 650+.....I lost interest when the sub 600 players were playing....(just being honest)
 
A lot has been said in this thread and most of it is pretty hard to argue against.

But I'm surprised nobody has brought up the https://tglgolf.com It's a relatively new venture for golf and imo has some traction. Cities/teams etc ARE important for fan retention and brand loyalty. Most of the world is used to rooting for teams and not individuals with the obvious exceptions. Guys remember there was a time when "big league" baseball had to give the seat away. That's what needs to happen. It likely won't because the players are too narrow minded and the chance of a big sponser like AT&T or Nike or something just isn't incentivized to push pool/billiards. I do believe that if someone could run it for 5 years in the red it could catch on in a team setting if there was any sort of consistency at all. NObody has done anything consistently. A schedule/season that people can learn and expect. Teams that people can grow some attachment to. Pipe dreams really.
 
The U.S. has a sweet spot, that I think we are in right now. It won't benefit the up and coming U.S. players if the "pro" game gets any bigger here. Sounds crazy, but I'm right. Our game has to be in this middle ground where it doesn't draw in all the international talent. This gives our prospects some space to compete and improve. If the "pro tour" gets too inviting, the international greats can travel the country, knocking off smaller tourneys while sending money back home. This squeezes out potential U.S. pros and encourages them to stay in the amateur world (bar box).
 
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