The new U S. pro pool tour

[BasementDweller]

Just to add...

When pro pool gets "bigger" it's often just in the production. It looks more professional, but the financials for the players doesn't really change much.

 

[Black-Balled]

Just one. See posts 23 and 35 above.

Ahh...true dat.

 

[sjm]

Bonus Ball made two LARGE errors. One, they tried a new game with no familiarity and a different set of balls, even though there was no need for a different set of balls. The 2nd big error, and THIS is the big one. They tried limiting their expenses by having a single location. No team sport has EVER done that and been successful.

A single location in VEGAS of all places, where people go to do specific things and watching obscure, well not obscure, niched sports, is not one of them.

It needs to travel. Sure if it gets big enough, sure, you can do what other sports have done and have arenas or share arenas with other sports, but doing what they do with other major pool events would be fine. Hell, having them as a secondary thing at major events on the second to last or last day could be doable. At least to start.

Yes, well said, numerous errors were made with Bonus Ball. Still, one of its core selling points when it was first being marketed was having teams that represented American cities or states and that the local fans would rally around those teams. This was a major miscalculation and, as you suggest, single location made this result even less likely.

 

[JPB2]

A lot has been said in this thread and most of it is pretty hard to argue against.

But I'm surprised nobody has brought up the https://tglgolf.com It's a relatively new venture for golf and imo has some traction. Cities/teams etc ARE important for fan retention and brand loyalty. Most of the world is used to rooting for teams and not individuals with the obvious exceptions. Guys remember there was a time when "big league" baseball had to give the seat away. That's what needs to happen. It likely won't because the players are too narrow minded and the chance of a big sponser like AT&T or Nike or something just isn't incentivized to push pool/billiards. I do believe that if someone could run it for 5 years in the red it could catch on in a team setting if there was any sort of consistency at all. NObody has done anything consistently. A schedule/season that people can learn and expect. Teams that people can grow some attachment to. Pipe dreams really.

Didn’t mention it because I forgot it exists- and I have seen it on the TVs at bars/restaurants. . It doesn’t do anything for me and I watch golf. I also listen a little to the PGA channel on XM and heard it mentioned.

I had to look it up to see more about the facility - the studio really. I thought it was in California, should have known better. Of course it is in Florida near where many players live and avoid state taxes. Makes sense. As has been discussed above, a single location team event hasn’t seemed to work. It might work for what it is, a minor off season thing. The father- son off season event probably dwarfs it in ratings, but I don’t know, I’m just guessing. Maybe I’m just an old get off my lawn curmudgeon, but I’d watch the Skins Game, father son, or a resurrected JC Penney PGA/LPGA partners event long before that. I would watch that before some other sports programming though.

 

[jay helfert]

The U.S. has a sweet spot, that I think we are in right now. It won't benefit the up and coming U.S. players if the "pro" game gets any bigger here. Sounds crazy, but I'm right. Our game has to be in this middle ground where it doesn't draw in all the international talent. This gives our prospects some space to compete and improve. If the "pro tour" gets too inviting, the international greats can travel the country, knocking off smaller tourneys while sending money back home. This squeezes out potential U.S. pros and encourages them to stay in the amateur world (bar box).

You mean like the Filipinos have been doing for the last 20 years!

 

[Baby Huey]

I think ESPN which now has committed to showing some pool would be well served in producing a Round Robin 8 or 9 international tournament with the top ranked players. The prize pool could be significant in Pool Terms say $250 K that would get the players interest. Say 10K for participating and it could be shown any time ESPN needed to fill spots. The international component kinda adds a Ryder, Davis and World Cup type billing which would attract viewing interest. Pool on tape delay can work well to draw out important happenings in any particular match. It also gives an opportunity to dig into a players bio/life story.

 

[jay helfert]

I think ESPN which now has committed to showing some pool would be well served in producing a Round Robin 8 or 9 international tournament with the top ranked players. The prize pool could be significant in Pool Terms say $250 K that would get the players interest. Say 10K for participating and it could be shown any time ESPN needed to fill spots. The international component kinda adds a Ryder, Davis and World Cup type billing which would attract viewing interest. Pool on tape delay can work well to draw out important happenings in any particular match. It also gives an opportunity to dig into a players bio/life story.

I'll say it once more. Men vs. Women would draw the most interest and get the highest ratings! 100%

 

[maha]

most sports have top players that fans idolize and follow their lives and such.

pool has a bunch of drips, robots, no character players, no one wants to relate to or follow their lives and be envious.

until you get characters pool is stagnate.

who wants to watch a manikin in a store window.

 

[maha]

i think you're being way too positive today, maha

im working on it see above post. oh wait not that one.

 

[skogstokig]

im working on it see above post. oh wait not that one.

naah, not quite the right amount of bitterness yet. you'll get there. the day is young

 

[Positively Ralf]

Know what the real issue is? We as fans want big shows, high production values and giant pots for the players. For some reason the thought of medium sized level events turns off the hardcore pool fan. Am I wrong for having that thought?

 

[JPB2]

Know what the real issue is? We as fans want big shows, high production values and giant pots for the players. For some reason the thought of medium sized level events turns off the hardcore pool fan. Am I wrong for having that thought?

You aren’t wrong for having the thought, but I actually like watching streams of regional events or action matches. Streams from the Hard Times events are good, although I know not everyone likes them. I watched some of the Piazza’s stream last weekend and I watch some others. I often prefer the “ real” to the higher production pool stuff. I would guess some others agree with me.

 

[TwistedTexasStyle]

The APA is a business. They cater to players who average an APA 4-5 skill level. They do sponsor top players for events, such as exhibitions. I think Earl did some and Jeanette Lee and Fedor certainly have. But their main goal is to make a profit and evidently they don't see a way to do that with pro events.

I don't think it's the prize money that brings the APA players to Las Vegas. I think there are over 10k players now at the APA national events and the CSI combined events in March bring in about 13,000 bodies. On average, it's a moderately expensive vacation.

I think it would be great if US league pool did support a pro tour, but beyond CSI hosting the PBS events in March, I don't see it happening. If each league player in the US paid $5 per year towards a pro tour, that would be over $3 million. If a million came out for production costs of a tour, that still leaves two million for added money. It's not going to happen because that money would effectively be coming out of the pockets of the league businesses.

I went to the BadBoys Texas Bar Table Championships in Temple, Texas on my way home from the US Open in Frisco. It struck me I did not see any advertising for any pro events. A poster or banner for the Texas Open might of been a cheap way to draw some people down to Round Rock less than an hour away and happening at the same time. The same for the Mosconi Cup and Reyes Cup, seems like a good way to support local players while drawing attention to WNT-TV. I view barboxes as an entry point and not as a threat to professional pool. Event sponsorships start at $350 and hits right on the target audience(people who love pool). It was a true family event including young kids competing hard and growing the love of the sport. The 42 Diamond tables for a full week at the convention center suggest a lot players. I guess Matchroom has bigger fish to fry and a lot of other avenues to get their message out.

 

[jay helfert]

You aren’t wrong for having the thought, but I actually like watching streams of regional events or action matches. Streams from the Hard Times events are good, although I know not everyone likes them. I watched some of the Piazza’s stream last weekend and I watch some others. I often prefer the “ real” to the higher production pool stuff. I would guess some others agree with me.

Me too, many strong players in these events, plus whopping calcuttas. First place in the tourney maybe 15K. First in the calcutta maybe 40K!

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Didn’t mention it because I forgot it exists- and I have seen it on the TVs at bars/restaurants. . It doesn’t do anything for me and I watch golf. I also listen a little to the PGA channel on XM and heard it mentioned.

I had to look it up to see more about the facility - the studio really. I thought it was in California, should have known better. Of course it is in Florida near where many players live and avoid state taxes. Makes sense. As has been discussed above, a single location team event hasn’t seemed to work. It might work for what it is, a minor off season thing. The father- son off season event probably dwarfs it in ratings, but I don’t know, I’m just guessing. Maybe I’m just an old get off my lawn curmudgeon, but I’d watch the Skins Game, father son, or a resurrected JC Penney PGA/LPGA partners event long before that. I would watch that before some other sports programming though.

Yeah not trying to say its amazing but it is formulaically unlike what has been tried with pool and I think there's something there. A blueprint if you will.

Btw they have some LPGA/PGA crossover stuff upcoming...

 

[Baby Huey]

I’ll bet no one knows the first live stream event where a man played a challenge match against a women? Hint hint it wasn’t a pool match but the man was a reputed pool, tennis and golf hustler.

 

[jay helfert]

I’ll bet no one knows the first live stream event where a man played a challenge match against a women? Hint hint it wasn’t a pool match but the man was a reputed pool, tennis and golf hustler.

I know

 

[Island Drive]

According to some reports, bowling isn't doing all that well. It's a bad idea to depend on a single person or company. If the whim leaves them, the effort ends.

Bowling is 35% bought out now by big money, $120 family nights I hear.

 

[decent dennis]

I wish that would happen, but the APA leadership would have to have develop the long-range goal to lift the whole sport. I think they -- and a lot of people around pool -- have a narrower focus. Maybe USA Cue Sports can get more people and organizations involved.

And the Busch League ( now the apa) was started by Terry Bell and Larry Hubbard to eventually get a pro tour going and when they started making money off it well…….

 

[TwistedTexasStyle]

I’ll bet no one knows the first live stream event where a man played a challenge match against a women? Hint hint it wasn’t a pool match but the man was a reputed pool, tennis and golf hustler.

I think Bobby was involved!