CJ asked a question about eye dominance "ask the insturtor forum"

Your question was a bit hidden in the post but I would expect that you are not the only player who is very right handed but plays pool or billiards left handed. I think a lot of posts get ignored Muttonchops don't take it personal.

Muttonchops said:

Here's another one, Mr Bond posted about the history cue making, I asked a simple question? It's like Peyton's place

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=278366

These experts are starting the threads. Why should I continue to ask questions if they don't answer it? :deadhorse:

Click to expand...

You asked a question, and then provided the answer. Which made it more of an observation than an actual question. Most were players before starting to make cues.

It's what I teach.............

The dominant eye needs to be in the most dominant position.

Doesn't matter what hand you are at all. Doesn't matter where the feet are but where the eyes are,

I teach this everyday in seminars at poolhalls on the road.

many of the 2's and 3's in the APA have the cue under the wrong eye when they shoot. They are trying to shoot like a gun. Right handed under the right eye or left handed under the left eye. But even players at the higher skill levels need to know how to enhance the dominant eye to tweak their aim to the best of their ability but don't understand how much this will help.

Once I show them that they are opposite eye dominant the results of their shooting are amazing and they almost can't believe it.

This causes allot of trouble for so many players and they don't know how to fix it.

I not only show how to fix it but how to enhance it to the next level with Perfect aim.

The info is there that anyone wants to learn.

It's what I do.

Give me a call and I will do one of my free phone lessons with you teaching you how this works.

I have taught some teachers around the country how this works and how to teach it. Sometimes it's hard to figure out which eye is dominant on some players. The standard eye dominance tests like pointing and such do not work for everyone. 50/50 results. Just doesn't work.

Eye doctors will verify this fact.

Give me a call. 715-563-8712 Talk to you soon.

Nobody that I know, really knows exactly how this works. I try to tell players here on the forum

Kind of gave up on the aiming forum myself. Such a mess. Nobody has it right. Too much arguing.

I just quietly go around the country teaching and helping players everywhere learn how all this works. With great results.

genomachino said:

The dominant eye needs to be in the most dominant position.

Click to expand...

Geno,

Based on what you write, it is not totally clear to me what you actually mean.

The way I interpret what your mean by "the dominant eye needs to be in the most dominant position" is that the player should have their dominant eye closer to the line of the shot than the non-dominant eye. Is that what you mean? Or by "most dominant position," do you mean directly over the line of the shot? Let's assume a straight-in center-ball-hit shot for now to keep things simple.

genomachino said:

Doesn't matter what hand you are at all. Doesn't matter where the feet are but where the eyes are

Click to expand...

This is something on which I agree with you 100%. All that matters is that a person's vision be aligned in a way that helps them best visualize the line of the shot and the center of the CB. The feet, body, and hips might need to move from shot to shot depending on the type of shot and where the body is relative to the table and the CB, but the vision should always be aligned the same way. I call the ideal visual alignment position the "vision center."

For some people (e.g., those with extreme eye dominance), the "vision center" position is with the dominant eye directly over the cue. For many people, the "vision center" position is with the cue centered exactly between the eyes, regardless of which eye might be "dominant" or not. And for some people, the "vision center" position is with the cue somewhere between (but not centered) or outside of the eyes, regardless of which eye might be "dominant" or not.

IMO, it is best to ignore which eye one might think is dominant or not and just determine your "vision center" position with simple drills. A key fundamental of pool is having your eyes in the right place, and this "right place" is different for each individual. The only way to determine it is with a cue and balls at a table. The standard tests for "ocular dominance" won't necessarily help with this.

For those who want to find their personal "vision center," much more information and demonstrations can be found on the "vision center" resource page. Also, lots of information (and supporting resources) concerning "sighting," "dominant eye," and other vision-related topics can be found on the eyes and vision resource page.

Regards,
Dave

The brain does a lousy job of sorting this out...........

dr_dave said:

Geno,

Based on what you write, it is not totally clear to me what you actually mean.

The way I interpret what your mean by "the dominant eye needs to be in the most dominant position" is that the player should have their dominant eye closer to the line of the shot than the non-dominant eye. Is that what you mean? Or by "most dominant position," do you mean directly over the line of the shot? Let's assume a straight-in center-ball-hit shot for now to keep things simple.


This is something on which I agree with you 100%. All that matters is that a person's vision be aligned in a way that helps them best visualize the line of the shot and the center of the CB. The feet, body, and hips might need to move from shot to shot depending on the type of shot and where the body is relative to the table and the CB, but the vision should always be aligned the same way. I call the ideal visual alignment position the "vision center."

For some people (e.g., those with extreme eye dominance), the "vision center" position is with the dominant eye directly over the cue. For many people, the "vision center" position is with the cue centered exactly between the eyes, regardless of which eye might be "dominant" or not. And for some people, the "vision center" position is with the cue somewhere between (but not centered) or outside of the eyes, regardless of which eye might be "dominant" or not.

IMO, it is best to ignore which eye one might think is dominant or not and just determine your "vision center" position with simple drills. A key fundamental of pool is having your eyes in the right place, and this "right place" is different for each individual. The only way to determine it is with a cue and balls at a table. The standard test for "ocular dominance" won't necessarily help with this.

For those who want to find their personal "vision center," much more information and demonstrations can be found on the "vision center" resource page. Also, lots of information (and supporting resources) concerning "sighting," "dominant eye," and other vision-related topics can be found on the eyes and vision resource page.

Regards,
Dave

Click to expand...

You put on your sight a very misleading statement about what Perfect aim is and I asked you to take it off.

This is what Perfect aim is all about. Making sure the dominant eye is in the most dominant position making sure the other eye is not being dominant at all.

This allows your eyes to work together in the most efficient way to envision the shot as Perfectly as possible.

I'm still on the road amazing players everywhere I go with this info that is still only available with perfect aim minus a few teachers that are trying to teach it.

When you sat in on a lesson at daves house in colorado 4 years ago i didn't know all the things that i know now. If I would have known what i know now you might have understood how important what i teach is.

Just had a young man that i gave a lesson to, Dave Styer from Charlotte, NC.

he just took second in a big tourny recently . This was his best finish ever and he directly contributed it to what he learned.

This is happening everywhere i go with all the players i teach and it's too bad the info is kind of being lost in the mix of miss information or things that don't really help players.

I'm not getting rich but I'm sure having fun teaching and playing all over the country.

What I teach is the most important information that any player could ever learn to improve his pool game.

Rodney Morris just told me at Q masters, Thanks for showing this to him back in July of 2009. He also told me that he uses Perfect aim everyday that he plays.

Along with thousands by now and still counting.

Most poolhalls I go to now i meet about 5 to 10 players that have already seen my video and loved it.

Just having fun.........................Good luck

genomachino said:

You put on your sight a very misleading statement about what Perfect aim is and I asked you to take it off.

This is what Perfect aim is all about. Making sure the dominant eye is in the most dominant position making sure the other eye is not being dominant at all.

This allows your eyes to work together in the most efficient way to envision the shot as Perfectly as possible.

Click to expand...

Gene,

Below is the entire contents of the "Perfect Aim" section on my aiming systems resource page.

You will notice that I've added a quote from your recent post so people can see your explanation of the system.

I also have a link to your website for people who want more information or want to purchase the DVD.

The only other thing included is an except from a review of your DVD posted on AZB by Patrick Johnson. I have seen the DVD, and I think Patrick's explanation does a decent job of explaining the basics of Perfect Aim. I'm sorry you don't approve of this quote on my website, but I see no reason to remove it either from my site or from the AZB archives (where the information was first posted, per the referencing link on my page).

If your system and DVD have changed significantly from the original version, let me know and I would be happy to review it and provide a revised and improved description.

Regards,
Dave

______________________________________________________________________
entire contents of the Perfect Aim section on the aiming systems resource page:

Perfect Aim is a method of sighting recommended by Gene Albrecht. It is about getting the eyes in the right place for different types of shots.

from Gene Albrecht (in AZB post):

This is what Perfect aim is all about: Making sure the dominant eye is in the most dominant position making sure the other eye is not being dominant at all. This allows your eyes to work together in the most efficient way to envision the shot as Perfectly as possible.

from Patrick Johnson (in AZB post):

[In Gene's Perfect Aim DVD, he suggests] that we should sight all pool shots by aligning the “inside” edge of the CB with the place on the OB where it should overlap for the cut angle we want, and that we should position the eye nearest that side of the CB directly over this line to get the truest picture of it. For instance:

- for a 30-degree cut to the left (a 1/2 ball hit), sight from the CB’s left edge to the exact center of the OB by positioning the left eye over that line

- for a 49-degree cut to the right (a 1/4 ball hit), sight from the CB’s right edge to the point 1/2 radius in from the OB’s left edge by positioning the right eye over that line

- for a straight shot, sight from the CB’s edge to the OB’s edge by positioning the dominant eye over that line (obviously, using the edges on the dominant eye side)

... Gene is a very good player with many high-level tournament notches on his belt ...

dr_dave said:

The way I interpret what your mean by "the dominant eye needs to be in the most dominant position" is that the player should have their dominant eye closer to the line of the shot than the non-dominant eye. Is that what you mean? Or by "most dominant position," do you mean directly over the line of the shot?

Click to expand...

Or do you mean the same thing as what I mean by "vision center," which is clearly defined on the "vision center" resource page.

When you find some time, it would still be interesting to see your answers to these questions; otherwise it is difficult to know what you mean.

Thanks,
Dave

The correct answer

Muttonchops said:

no one seems to want to answer my question? I'm trying to be user friendly...just saying.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=336740

Click to expand...

The correct answer to that specific question if "no".

Just slightly confused

Is the tail wagging the dog?

IMHO is it not more important to make sure you are delivering the cue straight,
this must be more to do with stance alignment and cue action.

I some times check this by closing both eyes once down on the shot,
you can then feel if you are delivering the cue straight also helps with a good
follow through as you cannot judge the distance between the cue and cue ball.
( I can pot several balls in a row doing this on a 12 x 6 table with a 6 ft potting distance)

So everything for me happens when I approach the table and get down to the shot
while standing before dropping into the shot my are eyes firmly fixed on the spot of the object ball I need to hit.

This begs the question at what point does eye dominance come into play?

I would suggest very little when you are a few feet away stepping into the shot.

So is it just a matter of just moving your chin to the left or right once down on the shot if one eye dominate?

The dominant eye positioning may strengthen this in some way, but..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by genomachino View Post
Doesn't matter what hand you are at all. Doesn't matter where the feet are but where the eyes are[/QUOTE]

This is something on which I agree with you 100%. All that matters is that a person's vision be aligned in a way that helps them best visualize the line of the shot and the center of the CB. The feet, body, and hips might need to move from shot to shot depending on the type of shot and where the body is relative to the table and the CB, but the vision should always be aligned the same way.

Click to expand...

The feet position doesn't matter at all? That's like saying the foundation isn't important in the structure......To put the eyes in a consistent position you must first establish a consistent stance relative to the "line of the shot," then and only then can you get your vision consistent.

I would say the vision and feet positioning are equally important, however saying either one is "not important at all" is misleading if taken at "face value".......at the upper levels of most sports the footwork is an essential component.

The stance and feet position should establish a line between the cue ball and the object ball (I use Center/Center or Center/Edge, so there is two choices only) that is a base for the creation of the needed angle.

This way all the shots can be played from the same starting position, Then you mentally have the same frame of reference and you can direct your attention where it's really needed.....to FEEL the shot and positioning of the cue ball.

The dominant eye positioning may strengthen this in some way, but it, in it's self won't overcome inconsistent foot work or body positioning.....the feet and body's alignment must come first to establish a solid "playing structure".

Click to expand...

CJ Wiley said:

Geno said:

Doesn't matter what hand you are at all. Doesn't matter where the feet are but where the eyes are

Click to expand...

The feet position doesn't matter at all? That's like saying the foundation isn't important in the structure......To put the eyes in a consistent position you must first establish a consistent stance relative to the "line of the shot," then and only then can you get your vision consistent.

I would say the vision and feet positioning are equally important, however saying either one is "not important at all" is misleading if taken at "face value".......at the upper levels of most sports the footwork is an essential component.

The stance and feet position should establish a line between the cue ball and the object ball (I use Center/Center or Center/Edge, so there is two choices only) that is a base for the creation of the needed angle.

This way all the shots can be played from the same starting position, Then you mentally have the same frame of reference and you can direct your attention where it's really needed.....to FEEL the shot and positioning of the cue ball.

The dominant eye positioning may strengthen this in some way, but it, in it's self won't overcome inconsistent foot work or body positioning.....the feet and body's alignment must come first to establish a solid "playing structure".

Click to expand...

CJ,

I think you misinterpreted comments from me and Geno on this topic.

A stable, comfortable, and consistent stance that allows a good stroke is critically important. A consistent and purposeful pre-shot routine is also important.

I think Geno's point was that if your visual alignment is correct, it doesn't matter where your feet are, or what "hand" you are, or what eye might be "dominant" or not. Obviously, this assumes your stance allows for a consistent and accurate stroke. It also assumes that your pre-shot routine helps you create the necessary line of aim for the shot.

Also, sometimes the stance and feet position must change depending on how close the body is to the table and how far one must reach for a shot. But the one thing that must not change is visual alignment. If a person's vision center is not consistently aligned with the line of a shot (regardless or where the feet are), that person will probably not be successful and consistent.

Regards, and with respect,
Dave

dr_dave said:

CJ,

I think you misinterpreted comments from me and Geno on this topic.

A stable, comfortable, and consistent stance that allows a good stroke is critically important. A consistent and purposeful pre-shot routine is also important.

I think Geno's point was that if your visual alignment is correct, it doesn't matter where your feet are, or what "hand" you are, or what eye might be "dominant" or not. Obviously, this assumes your stance allows for a consistent and accurate stroke. It also assumes that your pre-shot routine helps you create the necessary line of aim for the shot.

Also, sometimes the stance and feet position must change depending on how close the body is to the table and how far one must reach for a shot. But the one thing that must not change is visual alignment. If a person's vision center is not consistently aligned with the line of a shot (regardless or where the feet are), that person will probably not be successful and consistent.

Regards, and with respect,
Dave

Click to expand...

May I ask are you suggesting that you make the dominate eye adjustment when standing and lining up to the shot?

Or you make adjustment down on the shot by simply moving your head to either side of the cue?

Left Eye for the Right Handed Guy

Muttonchops said:

no one seems to want to answer my question? I'm trying to be user friendly...just saying.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=336740

Click to expand...

I play pretty decent and for the most part when playing rotational games I haven't noted any real problems except these two by the way I think Ray Martin was a left eye dominant player so I think that says that's there isn't any really bad handicap but these I have noticed in my personal game.

Straight in shots. If I think about them too much I will adjust to one side or the other because my cue is under my nose not under my left eye. If I get down trusting my feel then I nail them if I doubt not as much.

The other is when playing One Pocket. If I am using the left side of the cue ball I have to be really careful when thin cutting a ball if I want to just brush the cue ball by a ball sometimes I see it as making contact and then shoot right by the ball missing it by about a thousandth of an inch, this one really ticks me off. I have to close my left eye and check it sometimes, I may have to develop a left eye over the cue to take care of this. This makes me jealous of right eye dominant players.

I play right handed and left eye dominant.

DGilb147 said:

May I ask are you suggesting that you make the dominate eye adjustment when standing and lining up to the shot?

Or you make adjustment down on the shot by simply moving your head to either side of the cue?

Click to expand...

I don't make any "dominant eye adjustment." I keep my personal vision center directly over the line of the shot during the entire pre-shot routine. Ideally, there should be no visual alignment shifting while down in the stance.

Regards,
Dave

336Robin said:

I play pretty decent and for the most part when playing rotational games I haven't noted any real problems except these two by the way I think Ray Martin was a left eye dominant player so I think that says that's there isn't any really bad handicap but these I have noticed in my personal game.

Straight in shots. If I think about them too much I will adjust to one side or the other because my cue is under my nose not under my left eye. If I get down trusting my feel then I nail them if I doubt not as much.

The other is when playing One Pocket. If I am using the left side of the cue ball I have to be really careful when thin cutting a ball if I want to just brush the cue ball by a ball sometimes I see it as making contact and then shoot right by the ball missing it by about a thousandth of an inch, this one really ticks me off. I have to close my left eye and check it sometimes, I may have to develop a left eye over the cue to take care of this. This makes me jealous of right eye dominant players.

I play right handed and left eye dominant.

Click to expand...

a bit like......

http://i4.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article4324824.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Chris-Wakelin-4324824.jpg

I watched a very good player -A true former "professional"-shooting and I noticed
his cue shifted from ctr of chin to either left or right eye. He is poster here so I sent
him a p,m, asking if he is aware of this,and if so ,is there a reason?
Unfortunately he never replied.Has anyone noticed other good players doing this?