Did Scmidt set new record

jay helfert said:
As of right now that 434 is the longest recorded Straight Pool run of all time! In and of itself it is a valuable DVD for that reason.
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Jay, you’re a wordsmith....come up with a name for a category where you give yourself
A first breakball....not to mention you get to pitch till you win.
The deal John Schmidt has with that room...if the idea catches on with other rooms and
Other players, I could see a lot of high runs coming...it could get exciting.
 
sjm said:
Irving Crane, whom I knew, commented to me that Babe Cranfield, who claimed two runs of over 700, probably made both of those runs. Crane suggested Babe had more 300+ runs than any player ever.

... but what you say of Babe's 768 was also true of Eufemia's run in 1961 (interestingly enough, the same year Roger Maris' was given the dreaded asterisk in the record books when he broke Babe Ruth's single season record). Mike, who was a good friend of my father, was the only person who saw the entire run, so the documentation was insufficient for the Guinness Book of World Records.
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Very true. If not documented, it doesn't really stand, and I think we all know that. There are even some who say if it's not a match, it doesn't matter how many the run is, it won't count. I'm not too sure of that, as Mosconi's so called matches pretty much held him at an advantage from the start. So even if John runs a thousand, it's really not breaking the record, because it's not a match? Interesting thoughts run on this thread, and I guess that's the way it's supposed to be.

Glad you brought up the discussion with Crane. Crane and Cranfield were not exactly buddies, both coming from upstate NY, and both champion players. Having had the privilege of sitting down with both for dinner on one lucky night, I can tell you they definitely respected each other.

All the best,
WW
 
jay helfert said:
The biggest difference to me Bob is that Mosconi's run started in the course of a regular match (exhibition or not) and was not just an attempt to break a record. After he won the match he continued the run, and the rest is pool history.

The single biggest flaw in John's attempts is that he will not do this in the course of a match and is starting with a break shot. For that reason, if he is successful it will have it's own place in the billiard record books for the longest verified run of balls. It will not supplant Mosconi's run, but complement it. That said, it would be an enviable record to have and would put John Schmidt's name in the record books for a long time to come. It would also be a very coveted DVD to own. I have already offered $10,000 for the rights to it, if it happens.
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I've watched a couple of John's big runs on video, and I definitely recall for at least one of them, John commenting that he never shot a single shot that he wouldn't have shot in an actual match.

While that doesn't mean that he wouldn't take a complete flier shot to get his all time high run, it's not an absolute given that he would have to shoot any shots that he wouldn't shoot in an actual match.


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Get_A_Grip said:
I've watched a couple of John's big runs on video, and I definitely recall for at least one of them, John commenting that he never shot a single shot that he wouldn't have shot in an actual match.

While that doesn't mean that he wouldn't take a complete flier shot to get his all time high run, it's not an absolute given that he would have to shoot any shots that he wouldn't shoot in an actual match.
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In the case of Mosconi's run, it was not really a match. His opponent made three balls and then held a stick. Especially after the score reached the nominal match length (200?) Willie would likely have taken flyers if needed. Maybe he didn't have to.
 
As for Eufemia's run, here is what Mike Eufemia had to say about it himself in his book about how to play pool:

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Bob Jewett said:
In the case of Mosconi's run, it was not really a match. His opponent made three balls and then held a stick. Especially after the score reached the nominal match length (200?) Willie would likely have taken flyers if needed. Maybe he didn't have to.
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Mosconi didn't start with a break shot either!
 
Bob Jewett said:
As for Eufemia's run, here is what Mike Eufemia had to say about it himself in his book about how to play pool:

View attachment 508621
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This is six years after Mosconi's 526, which was already well known and recognized in the billiard world at that time. Why didn't Eufemia take a page from Mosconi and get some kind of certification from all the "standing room only" witnesses? I'm sure people would have been willing to sign such a document attesting to the fact that they witnessed the entire run. That is, if they really had!

For Eufemia to type this statement with absolutely no verification (not even one witness) makes it meaningless.
 
jay helfert said:
Mosconi didn't start with a break shot either!
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Considering that to break the 526 record John would have to manufacture over 36 break shots of his own, I think spotting him the opening break shot really isn't as big of a deal like you're making it seem.

Sure, he won't have to make a difficult opening shot off of a safety to get to his first break shot, but it's the 36+ additional consecutive racks that is really the focus of this endeavor.


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jay helfert said:
This is six years after Mosconi's 526, which was already well known and recognized in the billiard world at that time. Why didn't Eufemia take a page from Mosconi and get some kind of certification from all the "standing room only" witnesses? I'm sure people would have been willing to sign such a document attesting to the fact that they witnessed the entire run. That is, if they really had!

For Eufemia to type this statement with absolutely no verification (not even one witness) makes it meaningless.
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It's too long after the event to be sure what happened. We can only speculate. What we know is that when the BCA looked into the matter, there was not sufficient documentation. But from what I've heard, Eufemia was capable of such a run. I don't know whether it happened or not.
 
I value a video-taped run more than signed and notarized affidavits of eye witnesses.

Sorry, but 95% of pool players aka bangers, league players et al (let alone average non-pool playing people) think a push through double-hit on a CB close to an OB is a legitimate shot.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
Considering that to break the 526 record John would have to manufacture over 36 break shots of his own, I think spotting him the opening break shot really isn't as big of a deal like you're making it seem.

Sure, he won't have to make a difficult opening shot off of a safety to get to his first break shot, but it's the 36+ additional consecutive racks that is really the focus of this endeavor.


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I agree! That's why it would be a significant achievement to accomplish this. The fact that it might come after hundreds of consecutive attempts as opposed to happening during the play of a single match also makes it quite a bit different than Mosconi's 526. Remember Mosconi only got one try per exhibition to run balls and almost always he quit after he got to 150. What if Mosconi had continued all his runs after he reached 150? How high would his best run be then? :thumbup2:
 
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Bob Jewett said:
No, he started with balls open on the table, maybe after his opponent missed a secondary break shot. We don't know.
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And maybe the balls were tied up and he had to break them out. We really don't know what the table looked like when he started his run, but one thing is for sure. He didn't start with a BIH break shot! :grin:
 
Bob Jewett said:
It's too long after the event to be sure what happened. We can only speculate. What we know is that when the BCA looked into the matter, there was not sufficient documentation. But from what I've heard, Eufemia was capable of such a run. I don't know whether it happened or not.
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And neither does anyone else! :wink:
 
jay helfert said:
Mosconi didn't start with a break shot either!
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One thing we don't know is whether the match started with the traditional break shot.

Mosconi was known to start some, but not all, exhibition matches by calling the head ball in the side pocket or playing a bank shot off one of the corner balls. So we don't know how spread the balls were. The accounts I've read say his opponent, Earl Bruney, made the first three balls and then Mosconi launched into his run. Mosconi said they were supposed to play to 200. When he got to 200 he thought he'd go to 250 and then quit. Interestingly, when he got to 300 and he says he thought about "the record" which supposedly was a 365 that Mosconi had set.

One other issue that would be interesting to know is who is racking the balls for JS' attempt. Is he racking himself or is there a racker. In the case of Mosconi's run there was a "referee," or at least a guy racking for him, named Clarence Newman.

Lou Figueroa
 
jay helfert said:
I agree! That's why it would be a significant achievement to accomplish this. The fact that it might come after hundreds of consecutive attempts as opposed to happening during the play of a single match also makes it quite a bit different than Mosconi's 526. Remember Mosconi only got one try per exhibition to run balls and almost always he quit after he got to 150. What if Mosconi had continued all his runs after he reached 150? How high would his best run be then? :thumbup2:
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John told me on several occasions that he could never run 527 on a Diamond.
However, if he does run 527 or more, that accomplishment would have to marked with an asterisk, not because of the table or the pocket size.
Why?
1. Ball in hand for the opening break shot.
2. Not a real game, because there's no opponent.
3. No referee.
4. No neutral racker.
Schmidt's procedure is identical to the format that's used at Derby City during the 14.1 Straight Pool Challenge. Under those conditions, shooting on a Diamond table, I don't think Schmidt has ever broken 200.
 
jay helfert said:
I agree! That's why it would be a significant achievement to accomplish this. The fact that it might come after hundreds of consecutive attempts as opposed to happening during the play of a single match also makes it quite a bit different than Mosconi's 526. Remember Mosconi only got one try per exhibition to run balls and almost always he quit after he got to 150. What if Mosconi had continued all his runs after he reached 150? How high would his best run be then? :thumbup2:
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When you think about it, it's kind of amazing that Mosconi didn't try for a super high run off of a break shot, where it was witnessed and "certified". Especially after running the 526. Maybe he thought that the 526 would never be beat? Surely he had to hear about the other even higher runs by others in practice sessions.

Everyone seems so concerned that if John breaks the 526 what that would mean, but I'm pretty sure that John would openly acknowledge that Mosconi was a much better straight pool player than him, regardless if he ends up running more than 526 on tape.
 
kkdanamatt said:
... Schmidt's procedure is identical to the format that's used at Derby City during the 14.1 Straight Pool Challenge. Under those conditions, shooting on a Diamond table, I don't think Schmidt has ever broken 200.
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Yes, he has, but it was in a warm up before the trials started. It was 206 IIRC.
 
kkdanamatt said:
John told me on several occasions that he could never run 527 on a Diamond.
However, if he does run 527 or more, that accomplishment would have to marked with an asterisk, not because of the table or the pocket size.
Why?
1. Ball in hand for the opening break shot.
2. Not a real game, because there's no opponent.
3. No referee.
4. No neutral racker.
Schmidt's procedure is identical to the format that's used at Derby City during the 14.1 Straight Pool Challenge. Under those conditions, shooting on a Diamond table, I don't think Schmidt has ever broken 200.
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jesus christ. the conditions are never going to be replicated, get over it. there are no exhibitions anymore, and there are no straight pool crowds either. if john beats the record we will all be able to witness and scrutinize the record run. and that can't be said about mosconis 8-foot-run
 
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