One thing I don't get is you said the measle ball is standard with all but the lowest set. But when I look at pictures of the Super Pro sets for sale they appear to come with a red logo ball, not the measle ball. Here's what I mean:
14.1 Cue Ball
- Thread starter rodcar
- Start date
Ah, with the close-up, I see -- that close-up is not available on even Saluc's own site (that I found, anyway).
What are viewable, are these, straight from Saluc's website:
Ships with Pro Cup (measles) ball:
"Super Aramith PRO-CUP Value Pack"
"Super Aramith PRO-CUP TV"
Does not ship with a Pro Cup (measles) ball:
"Super Aramith PRO"
"Aramith PREMIUM"
"Aramith Premier"
I'm not sure what that red-logo'ed ball is in the "Super Aramith Pro" (nor the black-logo'ed ball in the "Premium") set is. But I have a feeling it's very close to Aramith's "generic" cue ball offering, perhaps the same as their green-logo'ed ball, except without the internal metal foil. (The metal foil in the green-logo'ed ball is for magnetic cue ball returns.) Or very close to the unbranded Aramith cue ball in the Premier set. (Just conjecture on my part.)
Apologies for the inclusion of the "Super Aramith Pro" in my "all but the Premiere" statement. Just couldn't see that from the small pictures on Saluc's own website.
-Sean
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I forgot to mention I also have a set of the Tournaments purchased shortly after they came out, so I know for a fact they don't come with the measle ball. That cue ball has the black logo but with the tournament "broken circle" around it (like the rest of the balls in the set).
Fatboy started a thread shortly after the new Tournaments came out and iirc the cue ball that comes with that set is also new/different in some way as Fatboy said he had JA over and both were remarking that the CB played different. I haven't used them yet so I can't say what's different about it. But I'd guess it is a new ball made to go with that top of the line set, even if it's not identical to the rest of the Tournament ball set. If I had to take a stab at it I'd say the Tournament cue ball is also made with the Duramith resin.
Fatboy started a thread shortly after the new Tournaments came out and iirc the cue ball that comes with that set is also new/different in some way as Fatboy said he had JA over and both were remarking that the CB played different. I haven't used them yet so I can't say what's different about it. But I'd guess it is a new ball made to go with that top of the line set, even if it's not identical to the rest of the Tournament ball set. If I had to take a stab at it I'd say the Tournament cue ball is also made with the Duramith resin.
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Ah, OK. Like I said, I'm not familiar with either the red-logo'ed or black-logo'ed ball, but I definitely can believe they play different from, e.g., the blue circle or measles balls.
I have the IPT Tournament Edition set, which is a re-branded (OEM'ed?) version of the Aramith Tournament Edition set that the IPT had commissioned. It has an IPT-logo'ed cue ball -- the IPT logo is black and encircled as well. I just substituted the measles ball I already had, and have been happy with 'em.
It would be very cool if we could pool all of our cue ball information into one spot, and distill it down to the facts. It's unfortunate that a lot of "mistaken identity" and "mistaken properties" go around concerning cue balls.
-Sean
Now that brings up a whole other thing, the IPT's versus the Tournaments. I think Aramith just used the graphics of the IPT balls but that's about it. Aramith touted the Tournaments as a brand new 4th gen (Duramith) resin ball so I'm guessing they are not actually the same ball composition-wise as the old IPT's.
whoa, learning a Lot in a hurry from this thread! echo acousticsguru: LOVE this forum.
i've been mostly seeing the logo'd balls around here, not the dot or circle, so i'd be very interested to find out more about where they sit in the weight spectrum.
and what about the plain white cue balls i encounter, sometimes with a Centennial set, sometimes other
i've been mostly seeing the logo'd balls around here, not the dot or circle, so i'd be very interested to find out more about where they sit in the weight spectrum.
and what about the plain white cue balls i encounter, sometimes with a Centennial set, sometimes other
Sean -- I think you're way off on the weight of the red circle cue ball, or at least most of them. Good pool balls weigh about 6 oz. If a 5 oz. cue ball (17% lighter) were used with a set of 6 oz. object balls, it would be looney tunes -- absurdly easy draw and difficult follow.
The Aramith cue balls I own are all in the range of 165 grams to 169 grams (5.82 oz. - 5.96 oz.). My red circle ball is the lightest at 165 grams, but that's only about 2% less than the heaviest (a red Aramith logo ball at 169 grams), far from 17% lighter. Some of my other cue balls are an Aramith Tournament black logo ball (166 grams), a red triangle ball (167 grams), a second red Aramith logo ball (167 grams), a 6-red-dots ball (the "measles" ball, 167 grams), and a Brunswick Centennial blue circle ball (168 grams).
As to my red and blue circle cue balls, I do not experience any significant playing differences, even for 14.1.
Note that these are all used balls now, used by me on a home table. When they were new, they may have been slightly larger and heavier. For example, my Aramith Tournament black logo ball has been in use now for 29 months and has lost four thousandths of an inch in diameter and one gram in weight.
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Excellent point, Mitch. I think many people miss this when they declare that a certain type of ball is lighter than another type of ball.
The Aramith red logo ball was standard with Super Aramith Pro sets for quite a few years, and matched the other balls in the set.
Both the Aramith red logo ball and the 6-red-dot (measles) ball were standard with Super Aramith Pro sets in 2008; some sets had one, some had the other. I don't know whether all new boxed Super Pro sets now have the measles ball.
The Aramith Tournament black logo ball is standard in Aramith Tournament sets, and matches the other balls in the set.
OK, if that's the case, and the Blue Circle also matches the Cents it comes with AND Saluc says the Cents and Super Pros are the same balls except the graphics, then that means that the Blue Circle and Red Logo are the same ball. I think.
My head hurts from trying to follow my own logic. And now I still have no idea of where that leaves the red circle ball.
OK, if that's the case, and the Blue Circle also matches the Cents it comes with AND Saluc says the Cents and Super Pros are the same balls except the graphics, then that means that the Blue Circle and Red Logo are the same ball. I think.
And now I still have no idea of where that leaves the red circle ball.
Mitch:
Apologies for the lack of reply to your last IPT-vs-Tournament ball set question (or was it rather a "pondering"?).
Again, I'm not too sure of the red- or black-logo'ed ball. AtLarge is most likely right that these balls probably shipped with their respective sets (Super Pro and Premium, respectively) for as long as those ball set offerings have been on the market. Most of the sets I've seen people buy, however, tended to lean away from those sets -- just about everytime I've seen someone using an Aramith ball set, it were one of the two sets with the measles ball. That could be a northeast thing, though.
As for the Red Circle, I think it can be confidently stated that the Red Circle is a "lone wolf" cue ball (single ball) offering by Aramith. It is definitely not bundled or included with any ball sets. And that would be for its point-purpose use -- as a "favorite" cue ball used by rotation players for its "zinginess" (ability to be moved great distances around the table with less effort).
I found one other thread where I posted cue ball information:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2995744#post2995744
Unfortunately, the other one, which had cue ball weights, was in a thread that got derailed by aiming system speak (don't ask me how), and the thread got removed because it nose-dived into the ground.
I'll have to repost that information with the cue ball weights -- I have that information in a file somewhere.
-Sean
Sean -- the black logo ball I'm talking about is in the Aramith Tournament set (the newest formulation), not the Premium or Premier set.
I do hope you're able to find your cue-ball weights information; I doubt that the Aramith red circle ball is much different from the others.
I'm fairly sure that the BLK logo cue ball is made from a new material that is supposed to not leave the little white friction burn marks on the cloth. So the cloth is supposed to last longer. With this less friction in mind I think that it definitely would play differently, it would have to. It's the Duramith Resin.
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The red logo Arimith cue, where the logo is shaped like an eye sort of is their original cue ball I think I am older than you.
OK guys, I sent an email to Aramith about this subject and received the following reply:
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your e.mail.
Please find attached a sheet summarizing the information on the cue balls.
Hoping this answers your query,
Best regards.
ARAMITH - BELGIUM
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Here's the attachment (Word doc):
View attachment Aramith Cue Balls (3).doc
Not sure this will end the debates. :grin: According to this the Red Logo, Blue Circle, and Measle are all the same ball. They are made from the same resin (Super Aramith Pro) and obviously are all regulation size and weight.
That the Red Logo and Blue Circle are the same makes sense since they come with the Super Pros and Cents respectively, and those two sets are said to be the same. Don't know much about how these play different from each other. But I'm surprised about the Measle ball because it does seem to play different than the Blue Circle, at least to me.
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your e.mail.
Please find attached a sheet summarizing the information on the cue balls.
Hoping this answers your query,
Best regards.
ARAMITH - BELGIUM
------
Here's the attachment (Word doc):
View attachment Aramith Cue Balls (3).doc
Not sure this will end the debates. :grin: According to this the Red Logo, Blue Circle, and Measle are all the same ball. They are made from the same resin (Super Aramith Pro) and obviously are all regulation size and weight.
That the Red Logo and Blue Circle are the same makes sense since they come with the Super Pros and Cents respectively, and those two sets are said to be the same. Don't know much about how these play different from each other. But I'm surprised about the Measle ball because it does seem to play different than the Blue Circle, at least to me.
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Mitch:
What's truly bizarre, is that only several years ago, all three of these cue balls were indeed different -- different weights and different compositions. You can just *look* at each of these three balls, and see the differences in opacity and color, nevermind the obvious differences you notice when you put the cue balls on the scale.
What I think happened of late, is that the Saluc factory, in the spirit of absorbing their "acquisitions" (e.g. Brunswick's and Aramith's products), have decided to standardize all the products. It makes sense, too, and is done in the corporate world all the time. For instance, in my neck of the industry, when Cisco Systems swallows-up another company, it's not too long after that that the acquired company's products get "Cisco-ized" and absorbed into the Cisco product line. Look what happened with Sun Microsystems when Oracle acquired them -- the previously-enjoyed breadth of Sun's product lines were hacked-down into what Oracle likes to call "a streamlined product series," and they were "red cloud"-branded. (We in the I.T. industry like to refer to Oracle as "The Red Cloud.")
I wouldn't be surprised if Saluc's cue ball offerings are now experiencing the same "standardization."
-Sean
Yeah, maybe my Blue Circle and Measle ball are pre-standardization, I don't know, but I've had them no more than 3 or so years. But I definitely perceive a difference in how they play. The BC ball just seems to pick-up and scrub speed differently than the 6 Dot on draw, follow, and spin shots. The 6 Dot just seems more linear than the BC ball in that regard.
As far as color or weight goes, that doesn't mean much to me when describing individual balls. These differences can arise from the manufacturing process of different batches as well as discoloration over time. My 6 Dot is definitely whiter than my BC ball, but color additives may be different. Still, if it is the same resin I doubt color additives make much difference, if any, in how they play.
As far as color or weight goes, that doesn't mean much to me when describing individual balls. These differences can arise from the manufacturing process of different batches as well as discoloration over time. My 6 Dot is definitely whiter than my BC ball, but color additives may be different. Still, if it is the same resin I doubt color additives make much difference, if any, in how they play.
First I'd like to say thanks to many of you. The information I glean from this site is amazing. (as long as I avoid some of the high drama threads in other sections! Hehe)
Question for Sean: you mentioned on page one of this thread that the six dot measles is trademarked by Aramith. Yet I got a measles ball from Seyberts that was not Aramith and has six dots. Was going to post a link, but son of a gun, it is no longer on the web site that I can find.
Curious as to what I have. I'll try and weigh it soon for comparison sakes. In your experience, what are the primary deficiencies of a knock-off ball?
Thanks!
Question for Sean: you mentioned on page one of this thread that the six dot measles is trademarked by Aramith. Yet I got a measles ball from Seyberts that was not Aramith and has six dots. Was going to post a link, but son of a gun, it is no longer on the web site that I can find.
Curious as to what I have. I'll try and weigh it soon for comparison sakes. In your experience, what are the primary deficiencies of a knock-off ball?
Thanks!
I will chime in with what I have found of the imposter.
The size, weight, and color are not correct.
Steve