Olhausen "death rattle" modification.

JC said:

When is enough going to be enough already? Why don't you just fix pool tables better than anyone else in the world and let that be enough? Let your body of work out there be your reputation and do it's own boasting.

Frankly if someone continually has to tell the world how good they are I start to wonder.

JC

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No one ask for your 2 cents....and again I wasn't knocking jack.
I said I made the mistake...and didn't sugar coat it.
This forum section as I understand is to let guys like you that think they know something about pool table rails learn what's right and wrong.
It's not about I'm the best at anything.....I dont give a shit about the best....you don't know anything about me....or you wouldnt think that way.
Everyone's trying to work on rails for the money....sure I enjoy making money as much as the next guy....but I'm trying to fix the rails to play the right way so we can have specs that are correct.
You don't need to jump into something that has nothing to do with you.
Jacks a big guy....he can stand on his own 2 feet.
Everyone wants to talk shit....so they can maybe have other people think they know something.
What good are you doing for anyone....wolfing at me?
I never said Jacks a bad table mechanic....I said stretching cushions like that is wrong.....and all tables have different specs for different profile cushions.
No need for you to act like this....RKC is your guy...and that's great...I didn't see you coming down on him for saying Jacks fix was more than likely wrong.
Post something someone wants to hear....cause I'm far from the ego guy you think I am.
Have a nice day

Mark Gregory

iusedtoberich said:

Lets put the amount of stretch into perspective.

The cushion measures about 48" on a 9' table, on the long side of its miter. How much did the OP stretch it in order to recut the miters? Maybe 1/4" per end? (my estimation). So that's 1/2" of stretch evenly distributed over a 48" length. (Assuming the OP glued it in the center of the rail first, and then evenly stretched it along its length in both directions)

1/2" divided by 48" * 100 = 1.0% of stretch.

So the rubber band analogy, if you cut a new rubber band in half so its in a straight line, and lets say it measures 10" long in its relaxed state, and you pull on it until it measures 10.1" long, well, that is what is happening to the cushion on the table.

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This is to funny:grin: but I'll play along:grin: first of all, Mark...why do you always assume that everything any other table mechanic does...comes from me? Second, Rich...the length of the cushions on the 9ft rails is 42 1/2" or less after they've already been installed once, and stretched a little when first installed, then taken off, reinstalled again...and stretched again....so....now what?

perfectpocketz said:

No one ask for your 2 cents....and again I wasn't knocking jack.
I said I made the mistake...and didn't sugar coat it.
This forum section as I understand is to let guys like you that think they know something about pool table rails learn what's right and wrong.
It's not about I'm the best at anything.....I dont give a shit about the best....you don't know anything about me....or you wouldnt think that way.
Everyone's trying to work on rails for the money....sure I enjoy making money as much as the next guy....but I'm trying to fix the rails to play the right way so we can have specs that are correct.
You don't need to jump into something that has nothing to do with you.
Jacks a big guy....he can stand on his own 2 feet.
Everyone wants to talk shit....so they can maybe have other people think they know something.
What good are you doing for anyone....wolfing at me?
I never said Jacks a bad table mechanic....I said stretching cushions like that is wrong.....and all tables have different specs for different profile cushions.
No need for you to act like this....RKC is your guy...and that's great...I didn't see you coming down on him for saying Jacks fix was more than likely wrong.
Post something someone wants to hear....cause I'm far from the ego guy you think I am.
Have a nice day

Mark Gregory

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I didn't say I know anything or that RKC is "my guy". I implied you've been acting like a dick here for quite a while now and asked when is enough enough? It's hard to read many of your rants without feeling embarrassed for you. If you don't want my 2 cents then take your show to a private forum and get off the WWW. Just because you don't want to hear something doesn't make it not worth saying.

JC

realkingcobra said:

.....snip.... Picture a rubber band with no stretch on it end to end, then picture it stretched as far as it will go end to end, it becomes much tighter, thinner and the elasticity is gone. It's the elasticity that helps to rebound the balls. Yes it can be done the way you did it, using the same cushions over again...as you did, but the best results come from replacing the cushions so they don't have to be stretched like that.

Glen

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realkingcobra said:

....snip....Second, Rich...the length of the cushions on the 9ft rails is 42 1/2" or less after they've already been installed once, and stretched a little when first installed, then taken off, reinstalled again...and stretched again....so....now what?

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First, I'm not a mechanic as you well know, just a curious boy

Second, your first post I quoted above of yours used an incorrect analogy to what JZ did. He did not "stretch the rubber band as as far as it would go". He stretched it 1%!!!. Your rubber band analogy has the rubber band stretching probably 300%

Third, yes, I did make a slight error in my measurement. I measured from the long end of the miter to the long end of the miter, and I got 48". After reading your post, I wondered how we can possibly be that far off in our measurements.

I made a mistake, and was measuring the wood behind the cushion, and not only the cushion itself. So I dug my fingernail into my rail to determine where the cushion starts, and got a new measurement of 46" long miter to long miter.

That still does not equal your measurement of 42.5" or less. Can you explain that? Are the cushions "normally" 42.5" or less when new, and they are stretched to fit new installations? Or did you make a simple typographical error when you wrote 42.5"?

Regardless of if its 48", or 46", or 42.5" however, the stretch percentage is minimal. For sake of argument, .5" stretch over the shortest value of 42.5" = 1.2%, instead of the 1.0% I calculated above. Still a far cry from something like 300% in your rubber band analogy.

In your own words, "So now what?" :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:

Please see my attached photographs showing my measurements on a 9' GC.

perfectpocketz said:

Trust me I'm not a knocker.....and I only state facts from my mistakes.
But here's the window for your bet on the cushions staying in place.

Mark Gregory

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If you like, and if you trust JC's word, I'll bet 100 that the next time JC recovers that table, the cushions will not have any ungluing issues.

If the customer calls JC back before then and JC finds a problem relating to the cushion's bond failing, you win.

If the problem is discovered upon the next cloth installation, you win.

If no problem is discovered at the next reclothing, or before, I win.

This will most likely be well over a year, since I doubt any home based player replaces their cloth more than once every few years.

If JC never sees this table again, then its a push.

Let me know if we are on, or if you want to modify these terms at all.

iusedtoberich said:

If you like, and if you trust JC's word, I'll bet 100 that the next time JC recovers that table, the cushions will not have any ungluing issues.

If the customer calls JC back before then and JC finds a problem relating to the cushion's bond failing, you win.

If the problem is discovered upon the next cloth installation, you win.

If no problem is discovered at the next reclothing, or before, I win.

This will most likely be well over a year, since I doubt any home based player replaces their cloth more than once every few years.

If JC never sees this table again, then its a push.

Let me know if we are on, or if you want to modify these terms at all.

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uuuh...I'm the one who worked on JC's table, which is a Diamond Professional....which table are you talking about?...LOL

145* angle ?
That's death rattle alright.
I might stretch my rubber to get down to 141* too.

JoeyInCali said:

145* angle ?
That's death rattle alright.
I might stretch my rubber to get down to 141* too.

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Can't a person take the 1/8 inch facings off, sand the angle down from 145 to anything less than that without even taking the rubber loose as long as you don't reduce the down angle? As long as you stop right when you're kissing the nose of the rubber you're only increasing the size of the throat to make this adjustment. Apply some 3/16 facings and you have a more forgiving pocket that's slightly tighter at the opening. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

JC

trentfromtoledo said:

Ok, this is gonna sound super funny, but, what is the technical term for the tool I bought on ebay last year

that shows the angles?? I call it an angle finder, but, I know it has a technical name.

Thanks again

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That's a "quick angle finder" or "square head angle finder." Protractor is like asking for a hammer ... ball peen, sledge, framing, or what kind of hammer? Metal workers use those cheap kind a lot because you can use a magnet to keep it in place. Plus they are cheap and great to use when precision isn't really called for.

realkingcobra said:

uuuh...I'm the one who worked on JC's table, which is a Diamond Professional....which table are you talking about?...LOL

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JZMechanic is who I meant, the original poster of this thread, not JC. A typo. How could you not have known that, given the context of that post, and this whole thread?

Scratch~ said:

That's a "quick angle finder" or "square head angle finder." Protractor is like asking for a hammer ... ball peen, sledge, framing, or what kind of hammer? Metal workers use those cheap kind a lot because you can use a magnet to keep it in place. Plus they are cheap and great to use when precision isn't really called for.

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The picture looks like this is a machinist protractor. I have owned protractors
made by Lufkin, by Starrett and by Mitutoyo. They ARE precision instruments.

There are cheaper made protractors. The one trentfromtoledo has looks good.
The only way for more precision would be to check the angle using a sine bar.

JC said:

Can't a person take the 1/8 inch facings off, sand the angle down from 145 to anything less than that without even taking the rubber loose as long as you don't reduce the down angle? As long as you stop right when you're kissing the nose of the rubber you're only increasing the size of the throat to make this adjustment. Apply some 3/16 facings and you have a more forgiving pocket that's slightly tighter at the opening. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

JC

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Then you want to know why I'm a dick....questions like this one. Sure you can do that as long as you sand about 2" off the top side off every rail.
But I need to find another forum.
Maybe best if you just read and learn.

Mark Gregory

perfectpocketz said:

Maybe best if you just read and learn.

Mark Gregory

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Maybe if you wrote enough worth reading without the constant snide, arrogant attacks I would. But since you have personally degenerated this forum to a pissing contest in virtually every thread you post in, it's just too hard to sort through your bitter diatribe to find the nuggets worth learning. Not that you're interested in sharing them anyway. It must be lonesome up there at the top.

Tell me where to sand off that 2 inches ok? I seriously doubt you even comprehended what I was talking about based on such a stupid answer. Of course that won't work on this table by the time Jack got to it, but it will on most any other example that needs playability improved exponentially for cheap. But then what would those thousands and thousands of dollars worth of tools be used for? Besides that playability is subjective and comparative so your perfect table might not impress every pool player out there.

JC

PS: I'm blocking you now so if you have anything further to say you can "talk to the hand"

It's guy like you JC that always have something to add on every post anyone makes.
You can't play the game....you can't fix the tables....so the next best thing for you is to run your mouth.
You don't know or understand that what Jack did and posted is going to cause dumb questions like yours....and have customers say ...well the guy on AZ stretched the cushions ...why can't you....I don't want to buy new ones.
Jack did no sub rail work...so how does a rail go from a 145 to a 141 without adding wood for the change......I looked the pics over and over before I said anything.
The sub rail on the table was the angle before the cushions were pulled off...as they were when the job was complete.
It's guys like you JC that have 1500 posts with nothing of interest for a talk to a mechanic forum....what do you bring or add to this section other than.......your opinion...witch is a guess.
I spend more money on wasted materials learning a better way to fix rails...than 5 so called mechanics on this forum......so go practice on your new table....maybe you'll figure out the difference between a 5 ball and orange.

You think I care if you blocked me.....now you go talk to the hand....nice talking to ya...lmao

Mark Gregory

JC said:

Can't a person take the 1/8 inch facings off, sand the angle down from 145 to anything less than that without even taking the rubber loose as long as you don't reduce the down angle? As long as you stop right when you're kissing the nose of the rubber you're only increasing the size of the throat to make this adjustment. Apply some 3/16 facings and you have a more forgiving pocket that's slightly tighter at the opening. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

JC

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I'm not a table mechanic... but I do think what you are asking could be possible.
I wouldn't try sanding the angles to 141 degrees. I would use a milling machine.

The rails could be set at the correct 141* pocket angle on the milling machine table.
The milling head could then tip for an end mill cutter at a correct pocket down angle.

The 4 degree angle difference would take more material off the throat of the pocket.
.

Ralph Kramden said:

I'm not a table mechanic... but I do think what you are asking could be possible.
I wouldn't try sanding the angles to 141 degrees. I would use a milling machine.

The rails could be set at the correct 141* pocket angle on the milling machine table.
The milling head could then tip for an end mill cutter at a correct pocket down angle.

The 4 degree angle difference would take more material off the throat of the pocket.
.

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If you look at the pics of a rail....the sub rail is in line with the rail when cut.. Meaning the cushion and the sub rail are in line with the side of the rail...when you add the facing to the end of the cushion....that's what the rubber or plastic pockets seeds behind.
If you cut the sub rail angle back and not the rail....then the pockets will stand out into where your shooting the balls in the pockets.
Look at the pics showing the cushion-sub rail-and rail...then imagine your cut and where the cut would stop...them imagine adding the pocket.
That may give you a better understanding of why I said you would have to cut into the rail to do what your saying.
The table never had a 145 on the rails to start with...so this is all for nothing.
I'm done....good luck to who ever wNts to keep it going.

Mark Gregory

perfectpocketz said:

If you look at the pics of a rail....the sub rail is in line with the rail when cut.. Meaning the cushion and the sub rail are in line with the side of the rail...when you add the facing to the end of the cushion....that's what the rubber or plastic pockets seeds behind.
If you cut the sub rail angle back and not the rail....then the pockets will stand out into where your shooting the balls in the pockets.
Look at the pics showing the cushion-sub rail-and rail...then imagine your cut and where the cut would stop...them imagine adding the pocket.
That may give you a better understanding of why I said you would have to cut into the rail to do what your saying.
The table never had a 145 on the rails to start with...so this is all for nothing.
I'm done....good luck to who ever wNts to keep it going.

Mark Gregory

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Uh oh!

I am new to this forum, I joined as I am ordering a Diamond Pro Am and was concerned when they told me I could not have the one peice slate since it will be taken down a flight of stairs. That question was answered by RKC! Thanks for that RKC, I have read several of your posts on this site and the information you have provided me, along with the other posters on here has helped a hell of a lot. I started buy looking at Brunswick, them to olhausan, and have now settled on Diamond Pro AM because of this forum. That is beside the point I wanted to make! You all are awesome, Even Mark and JC. I would even watch a reality show if they hosted it together!!! Glen, not sure if you are still setting up the tables order from Diamond, but I sure hope you are the guy that shows up at my house in a few months.

Schon shooter said:

I am new to this forum, I joined as I am ordering a Diamond Pro Am and was concerned when they told me I could not have the one peice slate since it will be taken down a flight of stairs. That question was answered by RKC! Thanks for that RKC, I have read several of your posts on this site and the information you have provided me, along with the other posters on here has helped a hell of a lot. I started buy looking at Brunswick, them to olhausan, and have now settled on Diamond Pro AM because of this forum. That is beside the point I wanted to make! You all are awesome, Even Mark and JC. I would even watch a reality show if they hosted it together!!! Glen, not sure if you are still setting up the tables order from Diamond, but I sure hope you are the guy that shows up at my house in a few months.

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All depends on where and when buddy:thumbup:

realkingcobra said:

All depends on where and when buddy:thumbup:

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My death rattle and wavy cushions are getting fixed soon.
I can't wait .
New cloth too.