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09-22-2010, 08:20 AM

John,

What about your experiment with making a modern version of the hustler case? I bought one from you at this year's Super Billiard Expo. Great quality and finish, I feel special owning it and I'm surprised you're not offering it in your catalog.


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09-22-2010, 08:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyhntr View Post
I think Jim Murnak may also be making the old style hustler cases too.


As I said Roy at INDYQ, has em by JM is stock I think!

Here is a photo of them, think Roy has some kind of sale on Cases, FYI


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09-22-2010, 08:35 AM

Didn't Ernie Gutierrez make a tube style case? I'm pretty sure the Glenn Collection has one.


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09-22-2010, 09:08 AM

John, do you have any knowledge of Steve Price's work? He currently produces cases out of the Tampa/Clearwater area.
  
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09-22-2010, 03:01 PM

The Cases Roy has are 1 x 2, Black, or Brown like the Cue Case in the movie The Hustler, they were made by Murnak of NYC. As I said Roy @ INDYQ has some specials going so if this is what you are talking about contact Roy for prices, etc.


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09-22-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyhntr View Post
John,

What about your experiment with making a modern version of the hustler case? I bought one from you at this year's Super Billiard Expo. Great quality and finish, I feel special owning it and I'm surprised you're not offering it in your catalog.
With everything else we are doing we just thought it isn't the time to introduce that case. There are a few things I need to work on to make it work a little better.
  
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09-22-2010, 04:50 PM

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Originally Posted by uwate View Post
John, do you have any knowledge of Steve Price's work? He currently produces cases out of the Tampa/Clearwater area.
Not first hand knowledge. From the pictures I have collected the construction and protection level seems pretty straightforward.

What impresses me with Steve's work is that he keeps it simple with just a touch of decoration. Believe it or not it's very difficult to know where to stop and in my opinion Steve nails it on his cases.

The other thing I am impressed with is that Steve is building what looks to be a very solid case with no stitching. He has figured out how to put the whole thing together with rivets in such a way that it looks great and not like a biker jacket on steroids. Very clever and very classy.

Someday when I get around to it I will make a sort of case museum online that celebrates all the lesser known makers. In cue case making there is an awful lot of creativity out there that hasn't really made national news.

I currently have around 90 case makers/brands identified with a couple more folders of unknown/unidentified cases.
  
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09-22-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepavlos View Post
Didn't Ernie Gutierrez make a tube style case? I'm pretty sure the Glenn Collection has one.
Yes. The Gina cases actually predated the Fellini and it's a pretty sure bet that the Fellini was directly influenced by the Gina cases. One member here on AZ has access to many unfinished Gina case parts if I am not mistaken.

The Gina case was built internally similar to the Harvey Martin with very thin nylon separating the cue parts. Externally the case was made with the leather glued to the body and the ends folded over the top.

Harvey Martin isn't really well known but if you really want to give credit where credit is due then the credit for the hand-finished ends should go to Martin. I don't know if Harvey Martin actually made the cases or not. But I can't find any examples of this technique on other leather goods. The obvious comparison would be upholstery except that upholstery hides the ends of the material so that it can be tacked or stapled after being pulled tightly.

Laying the leather up over the ends and finishing it with a patch of leather seems to be fairly unique to cue cases.

It cannot be understated how hard this is to do and get right. Very very easy to get wrong. You will find no tutorials anywhere (at least I never found any) on how to do this technique. In upholstery you don't have to be super careful about how the leather fits together because it's tucked away and unseen. So upholsters have all sorts of tricks to make the leather behave and look great for the part you see.

I would like to add that there ARE examples of upholstered cases where the ends are tucked into the tube and then leather/vinyl covered cap is placed in the top. This is NOT the same as the hand-finished ends I am speaking of.

In a case like the Harvey Martin, Gina, Fellini and GTF the person doing the work doesn't have a lot of room for error because what you see is what you get.

Harvey Martin and Gina both skived the leather to almost paper thin which certainly made the job much easier. The drawback to this is that it decreased the durability of the leather tremendously. This is probably a reason why so few of these cases have survived. A lot of them were probably thrown away as junk when the leather wore through. For this reason surviving examples should be prized.

Fellini used thicker leather on the ends and this came with it's own set of problems. Namely keeping the leather down. You can see on a lot of Fellinis that the ends are separating from the body. This happens when the leather and glue react to climate change. Sam Engles also had this problem on many of his cases. And this is normal because without a Martin or Gina to study then those that follow only have the examples available to them.

We have invented a way to pretty much insure that the ends stay put forever for the GTF cases. So far 3 years and counting it seems to be working.

But yeah, the real credit goes to Martin for the hand-finished ends and then to Gina for the flush slip cover case.

To be fair slip cover cases have been made for centuries. But as far as I can tell the modern version using nested extrusion tubes started with Ernie at Gina.

Note: There may be examples of the flush-lid slip cover style as Viking Cases which were also from the 60s.

(I don't have any examples of the Gina - Maybe someone else could provide some?)

Martin:






Fellini:






Engles:








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Last edited by JB Cases; 09-22-2010 at 07:42 PM. Reason: added info and some pix
  
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09-22-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CocoboloCowboy View Post
The Cases Roy has are 1 x 2, Black, or Brown like the Cue Case in the movie The Hustler, they were made by Murnak of NYC. As I said Roy @ INDYQ has some specials going so if this is what you are talking about contact Roy for prices, etc.
This is a very good case. Roy does have them in stock and ready to sell. As usual when he likes someone and something he stocks deep. I don't know how many he has left but if you really are interested in this style of case then Jim did an excellent job on these and Roy has them with no waiting.

I inspected them thoroughly in January when I was there. Good cases. Well done.
  
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09-22-2010, 05:35 PM

Harvey Martin isn't really well known but if you really want to give credit where credit is due then the credit for the folded over endcaps (I need a better name for this technique) should go to Martin.

John the correct description is what Sam always used, "hand finished ends".


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09-22-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hangemhigh View Post
Harvey Martin isn't really well known but if you really want to give credit where credit is due then the credit for the folded over endcaps (I need a better name for this technique) should go to Martin.

John the correct description is what Sam always used, "hand finished ends".
I guess that works well because there isn't really any other way to do them. The leather has to be essentially massaged into place. We use a few tools to help but the work is all done by one person, one case, with each one being a unique exercise.

Sam definitely chose the hardest method to finish the ends.
  
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09-22-2010, 05:56 PM

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Originally Posted by JB Cases View Post
With everything else we are doing we just thought it isn't the time to introduce that case. There are a few things I need to work on to make it work a little better.

John I think the one that that would be cool is to have like an Accessory Cup to hold a few item like Chalk, Willard, Tip Pick, Scuffer, etc.


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Case History
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Case History - 09-22-2010, 05:58 PM

Great thread, but is there going to be a case history test on Friday?
  
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Ginacue Case
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Ginacue Case - 09-22-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepavlos View Post
Didn't Ernie Gutierrez make a tube style case? I'm pretty sure the Glenn Collection has one.
Ernie Gutierrez made cases for several years, and was influential with Dan Whitten when Dan started making cases. I think(?) Ernie made cases in the 1970`s-mid 1980`s.

I have several cases made by Ernie, one of which matches a one of a kind fancy ivory-loaded cue in the late 1960`s early 70`s for a prominent tv personality in LA. I probably have 5-6 of these cases.

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09-22-2010, 07:47 PM

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Originally Posted by ibuycues View Post
Ernie Gutierrez made cases for several years, and was influential with Dan Whitten when Dan started making cases. I think(?) Ernie made cases in the 1970`s-mid 1980`s.

I have several cases made by Ernie, one of which matches a one of a kind fancy ivory-loaded cue in the late 1960`s early 70`s for a prominent tv personality in LA. I probably have 5-6 of these cases.

Will Prout
Those are rare to see anymore. A friend told me Ernie still has some of the core structures of the cases in his shop, and that they looked like they were made from some pressed fiber material.

If I see Ernie ( I just saw him last week shooting pool) I'll suggest that he make a few, to preserve for the future.

I would like to see some Ginacue cases in pics again. They used to be quite common here in LA but I haven't seen one in many years.

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