Ok,Playing 8 ball/ lets say the 8 is froze on the rail guy shoots the eight softly and bumps the eight and then the cue ball hits the same rail as the 8 ball is frozen. Is this a foul? Everyone is saying that the cue had to hit a different rail than what the eight is frozen. I never new that .. I thought cue ball could hit any rail after contact with object ball. Thanks
APA rule question?
- Thread starter I'mdoingit
- Start date
Das928
Banned
You are correct.
8ballin4fun
Registered
As long as the cue ball hits rail after the eight ball, does not matter which rail..
Your confusion involves which ball is hitting the rail. In this case it was the 8 ball that was frozen to the rail. So if playing a safe where you are driving the 8 ball to a rail, then the 8 must go to a different rail than the one it is frozen against. In this case it was the cue ball that went to the rail. Since it was not frozen to the rail to begin with, it is a legal shot even though it was sent to the same rail the 8 was frozen against.
Hope this explains it clear enough.
No foul. Good hit.
hit?
if he hit the 8 and the cue ball didn't make contact with that rail foul no rail. if after hitting 8 ball contact with any rail is a good hit
if he hit the 8 and the cue ball didn't make contact with that rail foul no rail. if after hitting 8 ball contact with any rail is a good hit
Cue ball can hit any rail, if cue didn't hit a rail the 8 would have to break contact with rail then touch any rail.
... to which it was not already frozen.
Either the cue ball can touch ANY rail, or the eight would have to touch a DIFFERENT rail than it was frozen to. I'm not sure about the eight coming off the rail and then somehow making contact with the same rail. I guess it would be a good hit but not sure the rule book covers that scenario.
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If an object ball is frozen to a rail, that rail is "out of play" for that object ball insofar as having that object ball strike a rail in order to have a legal shot. I does not matter if it comes off the rail and then hits it again. That OB must hit a different rail, UNLESS it leaves that cushion and contacts another ball before hitting that cushion again.
Here is the applicable World Standardized Rule (Bold type added for emphasis):
3.38 OBJECT BALL FROZEN TO CUSHION OR CUE BALL
This rule applies to any shot where the cue ball’s first contact with a ball is with one that is frozen to a cushion or to the cue ball itself. After the cue ball makes contact with the frozen object ball, the shot must result in either:
(a) A ball being pocketed, or;
(b) The cue ball contacting a cushion, or;
(c) The frozen ball being caused to contact a cushion attached to a separate rail, or;
(d) Another object ball being caused to contact a cushion with which it was not already in contact. Failure to satisfy one of those four requirements is a foul. (Note: 14.1 and other games specify additional requirements and applications of this rule; see specific game rules.) A ball which is touching a cushion at the start of a shot and then is forced into a cushion attached to the same rail is not considered to have been driven to that cushion unless it leaves the cushion, contacts another ball, and then contacts the cushion again. An object ball is not considered frozen to a cushion unless it is examined and announced as such by either the referee or one of the players prior to that object ball being involved in a shot.
BTW, "contacts another ball" does not mean the cue ball. For instance, if you hit the cue ball into a double kiss with the 8 frozen to a rail, the 8 is not deemed to have left that rail. In fact, it probably didn't.
The World Standardized Rule does not apply here, since the question involves APA league play.
Also, the provision that a ball which leaves a rail to which it is frozen and strikes another ball may then contact that same rail for a legal hit is not in the APA rules. The object ball that is frozen to a rail must strike a different rail for a legal hit.
Also, the provision that a ball which leaves a rail to which it is frozen and strikes another ball may then contact that same rail for a legal hit is not in the APA rules. The object ball that is frozen to a rail must strike a different rail for a legal hit.
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Ok so your telling me in APA if a ball is frozen on the rail and you hit that object ball square with top and both balls clearly come off the rail, and the cue double kisses the object ball to the same rail with no other balls touching a rail that's a foul? That doesn't sound right. As long as initial contact is broken and new contact is made with any ball it shouldn't be a foul. I don't play APA 8 ball anymore because I got sick of pool nazis, but this just doesn't add up. If the above is a foul that gives me one more reason to hate APA.
Not only is that a foul with the APA but it's a foul everywhere else. Object must go to a different rail.
That's not true. The World Standardized Rules do allow for the cushion/ball/same cushion scenario for a legal hit. See the provision below from the applicable rule posted earlier by dogsplayingpool.
"A ball which is touching a cushion at the start of a shot and then is forced into a cushion attached to the same rail is not considered to have been driven to that cushion unless it leaves the cushion, contacts another ball, and then contacts the cushion again."
APA rules on frozen balls do not have such a provision.
"A ball which is touching a cushion at the start of a shot and then is forced into a cushion attached to the same rail is not considered to have been driven to that cushion unless it leaves the cushion, contacts another ball, and then contacts the cushion again."
APA rules on frozen balls do not have such a provision.
For the purposes of this rule, is the table considered to have 4 rails, or 6? i.e. Is the long rail on either side of the side pocket considered the same rail or two different ones?
-Andrew
