What Happened to Pool Rooms

highrun55

can`t make a ball anymore
Silver Member
Sorry But,
I just need to vent a little bit and let off some stress.
I know the young crowd is money for us but what happened to the nice quiet pool room days ? Remember the sound of balls breaking and someone racking up ?
Now there is young girls giggling, guys horsing around and no real players in the room. Some of these girls are so hot for action, they have smoke coming out of the pants legs and these guys are all smoked up and could care less.
I think the pool world is soon going to be entertainment only if it`s not already. I have no younger guys or girls that have any desire to be good players at all, they just want to bang-em around and go home. Some of them have great stances and form etc.
When I ask if the want help or a few pointers they look at me like im a nuts or something. They look thru me not at me.

Sorry to drag it out Im summer slow all this month.

highrun55
To young yet to retire. 5 more years.
 

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
highrun55 said:
Sorry But,
I just need to vent a little bit and let off some stress.
I know the young crowd is money for us but what happened to the nice quiet pool room days ? Remember the sound of balls breaking and someone racking up ?
Now there is young girls giggling, guys horsing around and no real players in the room. Some of these girls are so hot for action, they have smoke coming out of the pants legs and these guys are all smoked up and could care less.
I think the pool world is soon going to be entertainment only if it`s not already. I have no younger guys or girls that have any desire to be good players at all, they just want to bang-em around and go home. Some of them have great stances and form etc.
When I ask if the want help or a few pointers they look at me like im a nuts or something. They look thru me not at me.

Sorry to drag it out Im summer slow all this month.

highrun55
To young yet to retire. 5 more years.

It has also been a little slow around here for table play. However, the Pro / Repair portion of my business has been through the roof.

I also kow what you mean with the young, but I do have four or five kids who have taken pool seriously. Myself and some of the better players that frequent my room always spend some time with them and help them on their way to becoming better players. However, these kids are certainly the exception not the rule.

I also wonder what the future of pool will be in 10 years or less. Without any organizational support of our Nations youth through pool/billiards programs. Well like you I suspect that I will be fully retired in 5 years, I will be 53 years old, a little past my planned retirement time but it will have to work.:D

I truly hope things pick-up for you, and have a good night!!
 

scottycoyote

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
one bright side to being old(er) is i actually remember old time pool rooms, at least they were old time compared to today lol........rackboy (actually his name was gator and he was prob 70) would bust your chops or give you a ruling........no jukebox, no people looking to hookup or drunk women goin "wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" lol.......pure pool and mostly gambling. Anybody who walked in with anything else in mind got alot of stares and felt the chill and would quickly exit.
 

Orion

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool is a sport?

Hi, I have a 6000sq. ft. poolroom, opened 3.5yrs ago. Went gangbusters for the first year and a half, then started tapering off. Its kinda like there are two sides to it. I get serious players who are always looking for ways to improve their games, roadies and league players on one side. Then on the others there are the ones who are trying to balance the cue on their nose while downing a Yagerblaster to impress their frat buddies or whatever hottie they are with. Guess where the money comes from? Yep its not the folks who are serious about pool. They are a good group but they come in and drink water and practice, that fine and a large part of why we opened. Next comes the league players. We had 8 BCA teams when we opened. They come in and some drink some don't they demand team drinks, shirts, free practice before the matches and whatever else they think they can get. I have 10 7ft. tables and when league is on they are offended if I rent out the other two tables as it hurts their concentration. And no they don't pay table time during league play. Sad to say it but I am selling off half my tables so I can club up half of the place and leave the other side for pool. Not my rent but just my properity taxes are $600 per month I just don't have a choice.

Now I will be 60 in a couple of weeks and have been around pool one way or another most of my life, played the roadie game, worked for Richard Black making cues, make the reconstone turquoise ect. that most of the cuemakers use for inlays and own a poolroom. So here is my take on it.

Pool is not a sport its a pastime at best. Sports can't and don't live off themselves, they need sponsership (advertisers) to provide the money to pay professionals who play in whatever game it is. In pool the only ones who police themselves at all are the women at least to some extent. Take for instance "Pete Rose" got caught gambling, GONE. Sponsers are looking for sports that familes can watch and be involved in so they can plug their products. How could they do that with pool? The oddsmakers won't even touch pool as the players cut it up too much. If pool ever starts policing their ranks then the sponsers will come. But when a company like Camel dumps the pool players we are in sad shape.

I guess what I'm coming down to is that like it or not the banger who is trying to balance a cue on his nose is running up a $50 plus tab in an hour and the player is griping cause he has to pay $7 per hour for two players. If I want to keep the doors open who do I cater too?

Orion
 

Strokerz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Orion said:
Hi, I have a 6000sq. ft. poolroom, opened 3.5yrs ago. Went gangbusters for the first year and a half, then started tapering off. Its kinda like there are two sides to it. I get serious players who are always looking for ways to improve their games, roadies and league players on one side. Then on the others there are the ones who are trying to balance the cue on their nose while downing a Yagerblaster to impress their frat buddies or whatever hottie they are with. Guess where the money comes from? Yep its not the folks who are serious about pool. They are a good group but they come in and drink water and practice, that fine and a large part of why we opened. Next comes the league players. We had 8 BCA teams when we opened. They come in and some drink some don't they demand team drinks, shirts, free practice before the matches and whatever else they think they can get. I have 10 7ft. tables and when league is on they are offended if I rent out the other two tables as it hurts their concentration. And no they don't pay table time during league play. Sad to say it but I am selling off half my tables so I can club up half of the place and leave the other side for pool. Not my rent but just my properity taxes are $600 per month I just don't have a choice.

Now I will be 60 in a couple of weeks and have been around pool one way or another most of my life, played the roadie game, worked for Richard Black making cues, make the reconstone turquoise ect. that most of the cuemakers use for inlays and own a poolroom. So here is my take on it.

Pool is not a sport its a pastime at best. Sports can't and don't live off themselves, they need sponsership (advertisers) to provide the money to pay professionals who play in whatever game it is. In pool the only ones who police themselves at all are the women at least to some extent. Take for instance "Pete Rose" got caught gambling, GONE. Sponsers are looking for sports that familes can watch and be involved in so they can plug their products. How could they do that with pool? The oddsmakers won't even touch pool as the players cut it up too much. If pool ever starts policing their ranks then the sponsers will come. But when a company like Camel dumps the pool players we are in sad shape.

I guess what I'm coming down to is that like it or not the banger who is trying to balance a cue on his nose is running up a $50 plus tab in an hour and the player is griping cause he has to pay $7 per hour for two players. If I want to keep the doors open who do I cater too?

Orion
I have to agree with most if not all that was said in this post. The first year Strokerz was open back in 01 thru 04 we were doing great. I was not manager at the time just the house cue repair guy and tournament director of sorts. When we opened the current owner had a partner. In 06 they disolved their partnership and the current owner took over and brought me in as manager, From 04 -06 the business fell off something feirce, Touraments were not going on, We went from 5 or 6 BCA<VNEA teams and an inhouse leauge to 0 teams! 0 teams! Thats just a business killer. Now that I have been manager for a year i have seen from the inside out the daily struggles that a pool room faces, We have a fairly low overhead for our size over 10,000 sq ft. We have the best equipment in the entire state! 10 K-Steel tables. We have a full proshop offering every type of cue repair. Full bar with liquor and beer, full kitchen, Big screen TV darts, pinball foosball, shuffleboard and WV video lottery machines. Now ya read this and think Strokerz is a gold mine! Guess again, Morgantown WV and our school WVU is according to the news last week the #1 party school in th USA. We have on the street were located on in downtown at least 50 bars in 2 block radius. These aint NY blocks now just small town ones. Evey bar has one of these every night $5 cover drink all night free! How can you compete with that? On avarage a budweiser cost downtown $3.25 thats avarage. We sell for $2.50 a bottle. We do $1.75 bottles 3 nights a week! And monday- thursday ladies play FREE pool! 4 nights a week we give pool away. We charge $3.50 an hr per person with 1 or 2 players 3 or more it's only $2.50 an hr per player. This is dirt cheap! And I still have people ***** about the prices guess who does the most *****in? The pool players. The bangers could care less about the price. We have some exta space around where our bar boxes are and I have thought about sectioning off that area for club/dance floor. Seems thats what all the young people want now I'm 28 i've been involved in pool since i was 13 there are very few serious or even remotely serious players in my town my age. Most players here are bar table players and it has been almost impossible for me to even get 1 or 2 for our touraments we hold on our 9ft tables. I have all but given up on attraction local players to our tourneys they just dont come out and support our events, I rely on players from Pittsburgh and Maryland players for the bulk of our fields. I could fill a 64 player bracket every night I had a tourney if just 1/3 of the leauge players would come out to play. We have supported the leauges since I took over we have teams in the BCA, VNEA and have started an inhouse leauge for beginner and intermediate players. I think with the support of the sponsprs I have got to come on board in the last year our pool buisness will increase over time and get back to where it was in the past but you have to have a mixed crowd you can't cater to just one age gorup or just to pool players or just to bangers. The pool room brings together all types of people young old player or not ya have to give them good customer service and a value for their dollar these days. I know i'm venting so I'll stop now:D But this is the game past time sport we all love and as room owners or managers we have to adapt sometimes to our customer base in order to make our business profitable. Who wants to play some:p
 
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despotic931

Mr. Felson's my dad...
Silver Member
I must be the exception...

...I'm only 21 and would love to find a pool hall like "Ames" from the The Hustler. It just must be my experiance with pool rooms, but it is almost hard for me to believe that places like that ever exhisted. I am jealous that places like that once did exhist and that I missed out. I guess I am just sick of people giving me looks when I am practicing, or just shooting alone as they call it, or when I actually spend the time to wipe down my cues after playing, or when I take the time to properly shape, scuff, and chalk my cue instead of just boring away at the chalk, or when I shoot the same shot over and over just to get it right. I can understand how hard it is for you room owners though, it's just a change in the times I guess, and I'm a young-oldtimer! :D :D :D And just think, I've only been in love with this sport for about a year and a half! (wish I had found it sooner...)

-Justin (despotic931 *off the soap box now*)
 

cueandcushion

Cue & Cushion_STL_MO
Silver Member
One reason`

Without going into the other 99 reasons for the change in demographics. I want to concentrate on just one. Instant gratification. We live in a world where everyone wants to have fun "RIGHT NOW". They want to be good at playing pool..."RIGHT NOW". They don't want to practice. They don't want to save money for a good cue..they want to run balls "RIGHT NOW" They want to have a fancy cue...you guessed it..."RIGHT NOW" The younger players that were raised to work hard for a living...to practice to become better at anything physical..to study to learn...are now in a minority. If a kid doesnt get a raise at a job in 2 mos...he leaves. The players of past generations took years and decades to hone their game and their hustle. The number of kids today that have physical and mental toughness, hand-eye coordination and the drive and desire to spend years learning pool...they are just too few. You cannot go back to the days of old. We must learn to stop trying to revive a horse and buggy past that will never come back. Just my rant for the night. *sigh*:confused:
 

highrun55

can`t make a ball anymore
Silver Member
Thanks Men for all the input, I am slowly realizing it wont ever be that old way again.

Thanks for your time.

highrun55
mickey scott
 

Padron

Pool room owner
In a lot of ways, the poolroom we closed a couple of months ago fit the bill you describe. We focused on quality equipment, a comfortable atmosphere without insanely loud music, full cue repairs, and education. My business partner and I BOTH went through BCA certification to be recognized instructors, so that our customers would receive the same style training no matter which of us they were more comfortable with. That wasn't cheap, either.

We hated to close, but the state of pool these days made it necessary. When you can't even cover rent each month, summer days will kill a poolroom. We had serious league players, but most of them only came out on league night. They wouldn't practice during the week. As the other owners know, you don't run leagues just for bringing in people for that day only.

We came to the conclusion that the only way to keep the room running would be to offer alcohol. In PA, that's almost impossible to pay for, with the cost of a license. We also didn't want to own a bar that happened to offer 9 foot pool tables. Just not what we wanted. So the Ames style room, which we had some similarities to, just won't make it these days. Wish it were otherwise, but... :(

All our best to those room owners who are sticking it out. Wish we were still doing it.

-Padron-
www.greatlakesbilliards.com
 

cueandcushion

Cue & Cushion_STL_MO
Silver Member
JimS said:
It's because of video games.

Funny you should say that. A father/son came in together on Saturday. The father was buying a new cue. He asked his son if he would like to start playing pool with him. The kid looked up to his dad with a confused look and said." I already play pool on Playstation!"

I am sure my jaw dropped....:(

Sign of the times...
 

JimS

Grandpa & his grand boys.
Silver Member
If I were a kid, a child of these times, I have my doubts that pool would have ever become to any extent important to me. Too many other ways to have fun that are more exciting, more flashy, portable, don't have to be learned and practiced.

I think that I got hooked because of the old pool halls that were around when I was a kid (born in 43) and they were exciting to me because the older guys were there. When I could sneak in for a while I got hooked on how to make the balls roll. I watched a ball go forward and then backwards and I was hooked. I had to know how to do that and I drove the ph owners crazy sneaking in the back door. The older guys that I'd met finally talked to owner into leaving me alone to play at the back table with the holes in the cloth. I WAS COOL!! ... in my minds-eye anyway. :D
That can't happen today. The video games at the mall are way to exciting for pool to make much of a imprint on the kids and they can go home and play more and they can even pull out the Gameboy and play on the way home.

Sure with I could find a real ph... no TV, no music, no video games, just pool.
 

Buddha's Belly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Universal?

My poolhall is in Bali, and yes we're facing the same thing! Younger generation are not competitive almost every tourney we do here must be Handicapped! (ball handicapped) otherwise nobody will shows up! They will weight the prize money, they will split prizes just no sportmanship. Is not the enjoyment of serious play and tournament anymore that they after!
 

Strokerz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With out alcohol we would never make it through the summer months, espically since Morgantown is a college town we lose half our population then.
 

Methodman201

@gmail.com
Silver Member
You know,
I love Pool, Love it more than anything in the world. I'm 17, I've been playing for about 4 1/2 years straight. This is not just a game to me, It is a Big part of my life and a Major part of friends lives. I see people walk into the halls I basicly, Live in, Grab a table and Enjoy themselves the entire night. That Puts a smile on my face...But I often wonder if it the game they are enjoying or if it's being in the company of eachother. I feel the future of the game is in trouble and you know, It scares me.

Like Stated, Many of us "Youngsters" want things "Right Now". I have been told that I am a very hard working and Head Straight Young Man.
I'll be the first to say I have had things Easy sofar. I do good in school and I have plans in the future based around the game.
At my place of employment, I do not ask for a raise nor do I expect one.
However, I do believe that If hard work has been instated since day one, incentive should maybe be thought about..

On avarage I spend about $62.12 per week playing pool, Thats $248.48 a month. I have slowed down a bit since then due the new addition of a table at my fathers home.

When Summer comes, I adjust my hours. I sleep till about 3:00 in the afternoon getup and "Start My Day" I play pool, Some poker and and I Chill. I'll do that till about 4-7:00 in the morning.
I know thats not healthy, Although Thats what I do. I work at things I do.
There is nothing more rewarding than hard work, Well, I do enjoy OPM quite a bit.

What I'm narrowing down to, Is Thanks.
On Behalf of the serious players out there and Myself,
I wanted to Thank Roomowners, Sponsors, Cue Makers and Everyone and anyone who helps this game evolve.
Thank You, Thank You very much.

-Vincent Mazza
 

Dartman

Well-known member
Silver Member
JimS said:
Sure with I could find a real ph... no TV, no music, no video games, just pool.

And the old guy huffing a cigar punching your time card at the desk and giving you the look from hell when you ask for a better piece of chalk.

IMO a lot of rooms have tried to keep up with the times and pleasing the new breed of customer that needs music and all the other distractions you never found in a real pool room back in the day. Too many choices of where to drop your dollars these days.
 

our_auctionguy

The Wall.....
Silver Member
My love for pool started with playing on a friend's table at the age of 8 for a few years during elementary school. It then progressed through junior high and high school by playing and actually competing every afternoon after school from 4PM-6:30PM and weekend evenings at a local church provided teen hangout. Are the days of providing a free safe place for teens to hang out after school gone. In all the years I played there, not once did anyone try to convert me to their church or even question me not being a member. We had ping pong, pool, cards, tv, music, etc. and no pressure from anyone except to respect what we had. We even gambled abuck or two here and there.

It seems to me that access and the opportunity for friendly competiton during those times instilled the desire to compete and become better than our buddies.

How about if the manufacturers start thinking about promoting billiards in schools and donating tables and equipment for after school play or even a break room for the kids. Maybe the track to follow is in the steps of companies like Apple, who for years practically gave away computers to schools knowing full well these kids would grow up and know who Apple is. Anybody see my IPod, I know it is around here somewhere. Oh well, I guess I will have to call and order another one on my new Apple Iphone. You see it's all about I... or is that me...?? Brunswick ....who's that??
 

Goldy

Beating The Internet
Silver Member
The Right Customers

I guess we have to look at ourselves. We that compete in evey way we play. On the table off the table. Paying attention to the finer details. Assembling a runout pattern(s). I'd say most of these concepts or aquired skills that make up a great pool player falls along the lines on devotion. Are we trouble shooters?

There's not enough publicity about the sport of pool floating around. More young people haven't seen much publicity about playing pool. The younger generation of parents aren't taking their kids out to local places that have pool tables. These kids are almost of age to drink now. What is the largest percentage of this generation doing for careers? What are their hobbies? I'd have to presume history repeats itself, though it would be nearly impossible to calcuate past recessions in the pool industry.

I guess the answer for more revenue is to how diverse you can make your facility. If your 50% focus is just pool time, you may want to consider that the cashflow from that wouldn't be as successful as you think. Most Non-Alcohol pool halls with standard vending equipment (jukebox/soda/snacks) do around $175,000 to $225,000 gross a year. Not a whole lot, eh? That of course is what is reported. Most cash based business will skim the sales somewhat for the ease of not throwing up red flags to ole' uncle sam. (cause we're alowed 5 years of losses before profit)

What lies ahead for future pool rooms is rather grim. We need serious diversity, but then the persitent player could become discouraged by the environment from the diversity. I see an ever-growing increase in league play in the local hole-in-the-wall pubs with crappy valley tables. VNEA, BCA, APA are leagues that flourish here. BCA showing the most growth.

I remember the post in this thread talking about alcohol and 9ft tables? what the heck is wrong with that? That is the type of diversity I'm talking about. You need groups of friends with addictive personalities. :) BCA has a big table leagues forming, and what a nice gesture to have a 9ft diamond pro coin op in your bar?

diamond, diamond, diamond.. I think diamond tables are a start to increase the popularity, but I don't think it's a complete answer to our recession. There aren't enough good players that take the time to show the less fourtunete players how to play. The best tournament I learned from were Scotch Doubles 8-ball or 9-ball cincinnati rules. We tend to get lazy with ourselves leaving for the next shot, but it becomes more important to leave your partner a shot.

Staying interested in pool is extremely difficult. It takes a special type of person to pull away from the pack of players. We see them a whole lot too.-- on T.V.

Just a note to many talented pool enthusiasts. DON'T just think you can rent a space, and throw 20 pool tables in it, and expect to make millions of dollars. Promote, Promote, Promote... YOU NEED ALCOHOL... You can make $1.00 per bottled beer Free an Clear, and $24.00 per 32oz bottle of liquor Free and Clear. Free and Clear is (NET PROFIT).. If a bottle of beer costs $0.95, and you sell it for $2.90, It costs $0.95 a bottle, plus $0.95 a bottle to replace it = $1.90. Whalla $1.00 net profit. 1,000 bottles a week = $1,000 a week Free and Clear after replensihing inventory to keep the cycle going. So, $52,000 a year profit on just bottled beer. 1,000 bottles a week could be broken down into 25 people drinking 5 bottles per day. Could you attract that many people per day? What are those 25 people doing while drinking 5 bottles? The answer is how diverse the entertainment is. What can you cram into a 6,000 sqft facility for those 25 people, and what are you going to make from that? I'm sorry to say, but you need to count on paying your bills from something that you can count on for sure! THAT IS, alcohol. Not a whole lot of false positives, unlike table time.

I'm done babbling... Good Luck Everyone..
 
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nfty9er

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are u sure?

n0risc said:
I guess we have to look at ourselves. We that compete in evey way we play. On the table off the table. Paying attention to the finer details. Assembling a runout pattern(s). I'd say most of these concepts or aquired skills that make up a great pool player falls along the lines on devotion. Are we trouble shooters?

There's not enough publicity about the sport of pool floating around. More young people haven't seen much publicity about playing pool. The younger generation of parents aren't taking their kids out to local places that have pool tables. These kids are almost of age to drink now. What is the largest percentage of this generation doing for careers? What are their hobbies? I'd have to presume history repeats itself, though it would be nearly impossible to calcuate past recessions in the pool industry.

I guess the answer for more revenue is to how diverse you can make your facility. If your 50% focus is just pool time, you may want to consider that the cashflow from that wouldn't be as successful as you think. Most Non-Alcohol pool halls with standard vending equipment (jukebox/soda/snacks) do around $175,000 to $225,000 gross a year. Not a whole lot, eh? That of course is what is reported. Most cash based business will skim the sales somewhat for the ease of not throwing up red flags to ole' uncle sam. (cause we're alowed 5 years of losses before profit)

What lies ahead for future pool rooms is rather grim. We need serious diversity, but then the persitent player could become discouraged by the environment from the diversity. I see an ever-growing increase in league play in the local hole-in-the-wall pubs with crappy valley tables. VNEA, BCA, APA are leagues that flourish here. BCA showing the most growth.

I remember the post in this thread talking about alcohol and 9ft tables? what the heck is wrong with that? That is the type of diversity I'm talking about. You need groups of friends with addictive personalities. :) BCA has a big table leagues forming, and what a nice gesture to have a 9ft diamond pro coin op in your bar?

diamond, diamond, diamond.. I think diamond tables are a start to increase the popularity, but I don't think it's a complete answer to our recession. There aren't enough good players that take the time to show the less fourtunete players how to play. The best tournament I learned from were Scotch Doubles 8-ball or 9-ball cincinnati rules. We tend to get lazy with ourselves leaving for the next shot, but it becomes more important to leave your partner a shot.

Staying interested in pool is extremely difficult. It takes a special type of person to pull away from the pack of players. We see them a whole lot too.-- on T.V.

Just a note to many talented pool enthusiasts. DON'T just think you can rent a space, and throw 20 pool tables in it, and expect to make millions of dollars. Promote, Promote, Promote... YOU NEED ALCOHOL... You can make $1.00 per bottled beer Free an Clear, and $24.00 per 32oz bottle of liquor Free and Clear. Free and Clear is (NET PROFIT).. If a bottle of beer costs $0.95, and you sell it for $2.90, It costs $0.95 a bottle, plus $0.95 a bottle to replace it = $1.90. Whalla $1.00 net profit. 1,000 bottles a week = $1,000 a week Free and Clear after replensihing inventory to keep the cycle going. So, $52,000 a year profit on just bottled beer. 1,000 bottles a week could be broken down into 25 people drinking 5 bottles per day. Could you attract that many people per day? What are those 25 people doing while drinking 5 bottles? The answer is how diverse the entertainment is. What can you cram into a 6,000 sqft facility for those 25 people, and what are you going to make from that? I'm sorry to say, but you need to count on paying your bills from something that you can count on for sure! THAT IS, alcohol. Not a whole lot of false positives, unlike table time.

I'm done babbling... Good Luck Everyone..

My math is a lot different. And more accurate.
If I buy a bottle of beer for 1 buck and sell it for 3, my profit is 2 not one.
Why should the next bottle I buy be taken away from profit, I am also going to sell that for 3 bucks and on and on forever. Forever making 2 bucks profit for each bottle of beer. The only thing I am out is my inventory until I sell it. That is why you have beginning of the year inventory and end of the year , for you taxes. But you are right about alcohol in a pool room, cannot surive without it.
 

cueandcushion

Cue & Cushion_STL_MO
Silver Member
Our pool table time is approximately 8-9% of our gross income.

Diversification is key to just surviving...not to mention making a profit.
 
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