curving an object ball....

SUPERSTAR · Mar 29, 2016

lfigueroa said:
No magic secret sauce pro stroke required.

Lou Figueroa

You are right.
But you aren't taking into account, the big picture population of pool players. You are assuming that the majority of pool players can actually play at your speed.
You have confidence in your ability. Plenty of people out there don't.

I know plenty of people who after 25 years, still really suck at drawing the ball, who still really suck at pool for that matter.
There's no magic trick to the draw shot.

But just because you or I can do it, doesn't mean every single person out there can, EVEN IF they know exactly how to do it.

They just never hit it right.
As such, people who know their abilities will have no problem.
People who are hacks on the other hand...

Don't make the mistake of assuming everyone has ability and that as a result, this will be easy for them.

Think politics and the 1%.
Now translate that into pool, and how many players out there, actually know this game.

HawaiianEye · Mar 29, 2016

SUPERSTAR said:
You are right.
But you aren't taking into account, the big picture population of pool players. You are assuming that the majority of pool players can actually play at your speed.
You have confidence in your ability. Plenty of people out there don't.

I know plenty of people who after 25 years, still really suck at drawing the ball, who still really suck at pool for that matter.
There's no magic trick to the draw shot.

But just because you or I can do it, doesn't mean every single person out there can, EVEN IF they know exactly how to do it.

They just never hit it right.
As such, people who know their abilities will have no problem.
People who are hacks on the other hand...

Don't make the mistake of assuming everyone has ability and that as a result, this will be easy for them.

Think politics and the 1%.
Now translate that into pool, and how many players out there, actually know this game.

Lou is giving you the carny jive.

It is like the guy a the carnival with the gimmicky games who always says, "you just about did it...almost...now gimme two more dollars and try again...I know you can do it", but you never walk away with the big bear because they always have some kind of scam and hidden or veiled rules.

Either you can make it curve or you can't. If it works in a game and you happen to pocket the ball is all that counts. Any high caliber player is only going to go for this shot if he thinks it may work. He also has already taken into account what is going to happen if he misses and the object ball hits the blocking ball. Most pros don't go for "flyers" unless they are playing an extremely weak opponent or they are way ahead in the match. On most of these shots, they are holding the cue ball with speed and spin, so even if they miss, the object ball is going to be somewhere down table and not be hanging in the side pocket.

.

Rubik's Cube · Mar 29, 2016

dr_dave said:
The revised challenge will be this way also. But you are free to choose any track line you want. The best approach will be to first find the shot that you can bend the most and then lay down the track line exactly along that shot. Then beating the challenge will require a precise hit to send the ball into your chosen track. This should not be a problem for a decent shooter who has practiced the shot a lot. Even a not-so-good player should be able to get at least one good hit with a large-enough number of attempts. We will also have a simple, reliable, and convincing way to measure the effectiveness of the bend. That's the main reason for the constrained setup.

I hope you will give it a try at some point. You set a good example for both how to bend and how to film high-quality video. Again, the $200 is automatic (for the person with the most effective bend), and the $2000 is available for the first person to beat the challenge (as it will be described and demonstrated, hopefully by the end of the week ... we're still working on it).

Regards,
Dave

Good afternoon, Dr. Dave.

Is there any chance your revised challenge might give the English pool and snooker players an opportunity to compete?

Kind regards,
RC.

dr_dave · Mar 29, 2016

Rubik's Cube said:
Good afternoon, Dr. Dave.

Is there any chance your revised challenge might give the English pool and snooker players an opportunity to compete?

Kind regards,
RC.

I'll talk to Bob about this to see what he thinks. I honestly don't have enough experience with non-pool equipment to know if this is appropriate or not.

Thank you for your interest,
Dave

PS: Even if we don't officially allow this in the challenge, I hope you will post some videos anyway. That might help us decide whether or not we should include non-pool tables.

dr_dave · Mar 29, 2016

FYI to those interested, I just got done with all of the filming for the demonstration video for the new challenge. I still need to do a bunch of editing and website work, but I hope to have the new challenge posted by Thursday.

Catch you later,
Dave

Player · Mar 29, 2016

pool101 said:
Except, I had the three points to measure by, the rail ball, the center ball, and the pocket point, or where the ball entered the pocket. The problem with the setup that was discribed is you would need to make tha ball fit their track line, that is not how it works IMO. The ball does what it does, you cannot control how many bounces or how far it will be airborn before it hops. I just knew you can curve the ball and I proved it.
Mark

Yes you did. :thumbup:

I think the Carnies ought to just buy one of JB's DVD's and see if they can learn
sumpin.

HawaiianEye · Mar 29, 2016

dr_dave said:
I'll talk to Bob about this to see what he thinks. I honestly don't have enough experience with non-pool equipment to know if this is appropriate or not.

Thank you for your interest,
Dave

PS: Even if we don't officially allow this in the challenge, I hope you will post some videos anyway. That might help us decide whether or not we should include non-pool tables.

I guess if he makes a video showing he can do it on a snooker table then the rules will be it won't be allowed. Is that the way it works?

dr_dave · Mar 29, 2016

HawaiianEye said:
I guess if he makes a video showing he can do it on a snooker table then the rules will be it won't be allowed. Is that the way it works?

I new somebody (e.g., you) would write something like this. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

Honestly, I would like to see some attempts on different equipment; and if Bob and I didn't perceive an unfair advantage, we would allow alternative equipment in the challenge. Unfortunately, we don't have access to that equipment ourselves, so all I can do is ask for videos from others.

I hope you and others who have been "vocal" in this thread will try the challenge and post some videos. It could be worth $2000 (or $200 if nobody beats the challenge). Remember, it is not a bet or a carny trick. You have nothing to lose!

Good luck,
Dave

John Brumback · Mar 29, 2016

Bob Jewett said:
OK, maybe. But I'd like to know how large the effect is. You don't know. I don't know. It seems that maybe even John Brumback doesn't know the limit of how much the ball can be made to curve.

I'd say if it is only a quarter inch is it of limited use. If it is as much as half a ball, it starts to be very interesting.

I'd also like to understand why it happens. But until we have an actual, measured example -- which the videos posted so far do not provide -- it is really hard to figure out what's happening.

We will never know the limit. You cannot prove a pool shot,( good,bad,short or long,) with science. Only with the "correct stroking method" and the same playing conditions,( which by the way,will never happen. Back to the drawing board..... John B.

HawaiianEye · Mar 29, 2016

dr_dave said:
I new somebody (e.g., you) would write something like this. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

Honestly, I would like to see some attempts on different equipment; and if Bob and I didn't perceive an unfair advantage, we would allow alternative equipment in the challenge. Unfortunately, we don't have access to that equipment ourselves, so all I can do is ask for videos from others.

I hope you and others who have been "vocal" in this thread will try the challenge and post some videos. It could be worth $2000 (or $200 if nobody beats the challenge). Remember, it is not a bet or a carny trick. You have nothing to lose!

Good luck,
Dave

If I had a pool table and a bunch of fancy cameras, I'd be all over it.

I can guarantee it won't be anything like breaking Mosconi's 526 to do.

John Brumback · Mar 29, 2016

Call in the dogs and piss on the fire,this hunt is over.....:boring2: John B.

3kushn · Mar 30, 2016

As Bob said and you attest to, 11 rails isn't as impossible as it seems, even on an old Brunswick. BTW it was a Hudson. Harry's stroke was powerful enough he could hit the long rail for #9 and back up for 10 & 11.

lfigueroa said:
Many moons ago, here in St. Louis, the usual suspects were hanging out at an old time pool hall here. The joint had one of those old-style 10' Brunswick billiard tables with the three inch slates and huge elephant thick legs on it and ivory diamonds in the rails. These tables are generally known around the country as "Big Berthas."

Anywhos, Harry Sims, one time US National 3-Cushion Champion, was telling all the rail birds how tough it was to hit an 11-railer and how he was one of the "few players" that could do it. IOWs, that you needed to have a pro player stroke to execute the shot...

Well, being the great, unwashed, young nonbelievers we all were we started messing around with the shot.

"Banking Billy" started trying to set up the shot on the old Arcade and, long story short, in about 20 minutes he found "the spot" for the CB and made the 11-railer on the old Brunswick. Then a bunch of us started shooting it. About six or seven of us all made it. By the end of the night we could have pulled McGoorty's "drunken Girl Scout" off the street and had her make it.

Ever since then I've been a little dubious about special, magic, only pros got it strokes.

Lou Figueroa

Spimp13 · Mar 30, 2016

I think this thread does a good job of encompassing all the good and bad that AZ billiards and it's members have to offer. It covers everything from a pro posting, normal discussion, arguing/bickering, videos, woofing, bets, sciency stuff, butthurt people, members getting banned, and a couple haikus. Happy Wednesday and bank well people!

dr_dave · Mar 30, 2016

HawaiianEye said:
dr_dave said:

I hope you and others who have been "vocal" in this thread will try the challenge and post some videos. It could be worth $2000 (or $200 if nobody beats the challenge). Remember, it is not a bet or a carny trick. You have nothing to lose!

Click to expand...

If I had a pool table and a bunch of fancy cameras, I'd be all over it.

It doesn't take any fancy cameras. It only takes a single smartphone or a cheap camcorder from Best Buy. And with the new, easier, and simpler version of the challenge (which I will release soon), you only need to measure a single distance after your best shot.

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave · Mar 30, 2016

Spimp13 said:
I think this thread does a good job of encompassing all the good and bad that AZ billiards and it's members have to offer. It covers everything from a pro posting, normal discussion, arguing/bickering, videos, woofing, bets, sciency stuff, butthurt people, members getting banned, and a couple haikus. Happy Wednesday and bank well people!

Good summary.

AZB is great.
We don't always get along.
But it is still fun.

jalapus logan · Mar 30, 2016

Spimp13 said:
I think this thread does a good job of encompassing all the good and bad that AZ billiards and it's members have to offer. It covers everything from a pro posting, normal discussion, arguing/bickering, videos, woofing, bets, sciency stuff, butthurt people, members getting banned, and a couple haikus. Happy Wednesday and bank well people!

Now, for all of the folks who thought the ball would curve, join hands and sing the following (to the tune of John Lennon's Give Peace a Chance):

"All we are saaaaayyyyyiiiiiing....is you've got the eeeiiiigggtttt....."

Corwyn_8 · Mar 30, 2016

John Brumback said:
We will never know the limit. You cannot prove a pool shot,( good,bad,short or long,) with science.

Thus MAGIC.

If you can't prove it with science (even if only theoretically), it isn't REAL.

lfigueroa · Mar 30, 2016

John Brumback said:
We will never know the limit. You cannot prove a pool shot,( good,bad,short or long,) with science. Only with the "correct stroking method" and the same playing conditions,( which by the way,will never happen. Back to the drawing board..... John B.

?

Science cannot explain a plastic ball, being hit by a wooden stick, on a cloth covered surface, hitting a rubber cushion...

Lou Figueroa
someone alert
CERN

Straightpool_99 · Mar 30, 2016

Science explains most things, and teaches us much. One should think that after thousands of years of setbacks, paradigm shifts, as well as stunning new discoveries, that it would also teach some humility. Sadly that's the lesson that some people learn the last. Some never do.

Brumback was right, all the bankers were right. We, the viewing audience were not hallucinating. It was not a camera effect, or visual anomaly of some sort. The ball does bend. Thanks to JB I'm able to do this myself now and I'm going to work hard to improve my ability to do so. I may have done it before, but never thought of doing this intentionally, but now I will. You never know, might win some prop bets against scientists.

.

duckie · Mar 30, 2016

Which came first, science or real life?

Science is used to explain real life, but it does have limitations in doing so.

In others words, just because science can't explain what is happening in real life does not mean whats happening in real life is not happening.

curving an object ball....

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