Wood to Wood VS SS Joint Feel

There is no doubt in my mind that the total combination of materials and the sequence of those combined materials make an impact in how a cue responds and feels in your hands. And after all my years of playing I have come to the conclusion that the joint may have some impact on how a cue feels, but it will never be as important as the design of the shaft, the tip type, and ferrule type. Everything about how a cue feels begins and ends right there as far as I am concerned.

My three favorite hitting cues are a McDermott with the classic 3/8-10 implex joint, a Phillippi with a SS 5/16-14 joint, and a Coker with a 3/8-10 Ivory joint.

For me the shaft taper, tip, and balance make the biggest impact on what I like. And if anything that is most consistent in my favorite cues it is the shaft taper and balance. My 3 mentioned cues have a good forward balance, and the shafts are all under 13mm in size and have a long pro taper on them.

It would be nice to see some scientific means of measuring the resoponsiveness of a cue based on its construction setup. Be able to give a cue some kind of "feel index" number. But with so many different combinations of cue components, it would for sure generate a large range of "feel index" numbers. Dont know how that could get done, but it would be neat to see.

I've never heard of the blindfold test, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit that no one could tell the difference in cues.

The difference happens when you can SEE the joint. That's when our brains play the tricks on us. :thumbup:

3andstop said:

I've never heard of the blindfold test

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Actually, I think they just covered the joints of the cues...

pj
chgo

ronscuba said:

If someone can tell a difference, then maybe they have a preference.



They like how it feels, sounds, balances. Do you have a favorite shirt, pair of shoes, jeans, hat, etc.. Something about them you just like and feel comfortable with ?



Most of us will play just as good or bad with a house cue.

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Most of us?? Hmmm
I can't play nearly as good with a bar cue than my Mezz player, not even close..I've heard very few people say they play as good with anything they shoot with..


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Patrick Johnson said:

Actually, I think they just covered the joints of the cues...

pj
chgo

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Ah .... the old paper bag trick ehh .... :thumbup:

Patrick Johnson said:

Actually, I think they just covered the joints of the cues...

pj
chgo

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I believe it was originally an RSB post but has been reposted here a few times. It may have been something about Dan Toles at a tournament wrapping the joints of several cues -- SS, WtoW, implex, ivory, etc -- and having players of all ranks try and guess what kind of joint each cue had. Basically the results were that no one could tell.

Freddy A probably has it filed away and could repost it.

Lou Figueroa

..........

DavidMNienow said:

For me the shaft taper, tip, [...]

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That's as far as I need to go before all the blathering turns into market rhetoric and catch-phrase hypnosis.

j_zippel said:

Most of us?? Hmmm
I can't play nearly as good with a bar cue than my Mezz player, not even close..I've heard very few people say they play as good with anything they shoot with..


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I play with a Mezz too. Given time, I would probably play just a well with a house cue. I'd venture to say it's probably true for most average players. Just my opinion.

I read about the blind test people are talking about. I believe they took players cues, hid the joint and let people shoot. People could not accurately guess the joint type. Makes sense given all the different cues, shafts tips, ferrules and joints.

If you took a single mfr, kept everything the same except the joint, would people be able to tell a difference ?

Wood to wood, imo

Nothing like the soft hit of the wood to wood Scmelke 10tpi

HawaiianEye said:

I've read numerous posts on here about how nobody can feel the difference between a 3/8-10 pin and a 5/16-14.

I think you can...at least some people.

I'm listening to Rodney Morris in the booth at the XPC tournament and he just said that he can't play a wood to wood joint as well as a SS joint because he doesn't get the same "vibrations" (I'm using his ACTUAL word) and he has to play "area" position with a wood to wood because it doesn't feel the same.

I'll let the nay sayers come in now and say Rodney doesn't know what he is talking about.

I can definitely feel the difference between my cues with different joints.

FWIW, Rodney said he was using one of Lucky's cues with a REGULAR shaft and a regular tip (not layered).

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There are two joints I LOVE.

1. Stainless Steel.
2. Radial.

I have cues in all the other joints, or most of them and honestly I
don't care which one I play and my game is identical with any of them.

I have never felt the difference between any of the joints, or for
that matter a jointed cue vs a house cue.

Guess I'm just not sensitive enough to feel it.

Because of that me loving these two joints above is solely based on how
easy it is to put the cue together and how well it stays together and
if I have to keep tightening it or not.

Other than that I could care less what joint is on the cue or if it
has no joint at all.......

This whole joint thing is taken waaaaaaaayyyyyy out of context.
It's becoming as big a hype as saying LD shafts are somehow
good for your play.

I post this link about every 6 months when the topic is brought up. Murray Tucker provided the write-up of the McChesney blind test.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3286694&postcount=18

I believe these results were just below random guessing. The question is whether or not there is a clearly identifiable characteristic that can be attributed to the joint. You can perform another test if you think the conditions did not address the questions you wanted. But this one seems pretty good to me.

Sealegs50 said:

I post this link about every 6 months when the topic is brought up. Murray Tucker provided the write-up of the McChesney blind test.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3286694&postcount=18

I believe these results were just below random guessing. The question is whether or not there is a clearly identifiable characteristic that can be attributed to the joint. You can perform another test if you think the conditions did not address the questions you wanted. But this one seems pretty good to me.

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That's the one - thanks.

pj
chgo

In 1994-1995 I bought "Mariposa" cue made by a guy named Kyle from Chicago. It did not have any vibration when I hit the cue ball and I felt that the cue was part of my arm. Different strokes for different folks. It has wood to wood joint. In 2002, my car was broken into in Auckland, NZ and my cue was gone.

vagabond said:

In 1994-1995 I bought "Mariposa" cue made by a guy named Kyle from Chicago. It did not have any vibration when I hit the cue ball and I felt that the cue was part of my arm. Different strokes for different folks. It has wood to wood joint. In 2002, my car was broken into in Auckland, NZ and my cue was gone.

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And that's the reason I play with a 3-cushion cue. No vibrations and no forward balance. I think that for the player who has a very loose grip, using a forward balanced cue is not a very good idea.

But, as you said: "Different strokes for different folks".......

ps611846 said:

I think that for the player who has a very loose grip, using a forward balanced cue is not a very good idea.

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Why not?

pj
chgo

ps611846 said:

And that's the reason I play with a 3-cushion cue. No vibrations and no forward balance. I think that for the player who has a very loose grip, using a forward balanced cue is not a very good idea.

But, as you said: "Different strokes for different folks".......

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Efren won world titles with his 21 oz front heavy cue.

Patrick Johnson said:

Why not?

pj
chgo

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I get the feeling that it "falls" too heavy on the cue ball.
It's a matter of feedback. I play better with a light cue (17-18oz), shorter than 58inches (55-56) and neutral to rear balance. I have a very loose grip and I use my wrist a lot. The 3-cushion cue is what I wanted from the first time. But I had to spend a lot of time and money to make my decision.

JoeyInCali said:

Efren won world titles with his 21 oz front heavy cue.

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Maybe 22 or even 23. I know, but I am not sure about the balance. Plus, he could play with anything. And we haven't seen him play with the kind of cue I described.

I would also like to see Bustamante playing with something like that.

ps611846 said:

I get the feeling that it "falls" too heavy on the cue ball.
It's a matter of feedback. I play better with a light cue (17-18oz), shorter than 58inches (55-56) and neutral to rear balance. I have a very loose grip and I use my wrist a lot. The 3-cushion cue is what I wanted from the first time. But I had to spend a lot of time and money to make my decision.

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Hi Panos,

I have an Adam Balabushka with a piloted 5/16 x14 Stainless Steel. This is one of the older ones made by Richard Helmstetter of Callaway Golf Fame.

I always did & still do for the most part use a very light connection to the cue, but I now change depending on what I want to do with the CB.

Anyway, it is forward balanced & a bit more so when a put an OB Pro 30" shaft on it.

I love it for 8 ball, etc. but when I go to playing 1 pocket (only into it about 6 months) I have to switch to a an old Players Sneaky with no collar & a 29" OB Pro.

I'm sorry, but I don't care what anyone says, I can FEEL the difference.

Maybe not is one blind hit or two but over a game with different types of shots & hits, yes definitely.

One of the best players in my area has a similar custom cue as my Adam & one day when I asked him to compare the OB Pro that I had on a Meucci to his Predator Z2 he hit one shot & immediately said, oh wait, this has a soft joint.

I guess it's like a lot of things, some can & some can not feel things.

Best Wishes to You & ALL.