Have a nice trip on your way down! :rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
% when backing pool player
- Thread starter Bmaker12
- Start date
Have a nice trip on your way down! :rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
lots of failed math students on this thread
staking somebody for fun is great if you're into the game and the scene, good for those guys, gamblers will often take a loss on a few percentage points for bets that are fun
and yes you can pay out 40% and come out ahead on a 50/50 proposition, but the player comes out ahead with almost any percentage and 20-25% all risk free is no insult imo, try getting that kind of return from a bank or anywhere else for that matter
staking somebody for fun is great if you're into the game and the scene, good for those guys, gamblers will often take a loss on a few percentage points for bets that are fun
and yes you can pay out 40% and come out ahead on a 50/50 proposition, but the player comes out ahead with almost any percentage and 20-25% all risk free is no insult imo, try getting that kind of return from a bank or anywhere else for that matter
In other words, instead of being treated like business associate in business you feel you should be treated like a charity and just donated to.
Keith McCready
Pro Player
Whoever you are, wherever you're from, spktur, you can try to degrade me all you want. I really don't give a damn. I know one thing, if you were in the pool room, like I said before, the only people that would know you was the ones you came with.
Second of all, I surely wouldn't let you treat me like a second-class citizen, and you can think of me what you want. But I know if there was 20 pool players lined up, I wouldn't be the only one thinking the way I do. You're just another one of those guys, in my opinion, that hides behind a computer and got nothing good to say about a pool player.
I guess if I was a betting man, though, which I am, what's really sad is we don't know who you are. It doesn't look like to me the pool players want to know who you are with your 20 percent bullshit. Boy, I'd love to be able to stake somebody and give them 20 percent. That would be a real nice deal. I've never, ever done that in my life. Never will. Even when I win money betting on the side, if I win 800, I'll go over and hand them 300 because that's how I roll and that's how you're supposed to do it. Don't sneak out of a pool room and give them zero like you would. You're one of those guys. Don't care to have any more conversation with you about this matter. You keep your nitty rear end where it belongs: behind the computer. That's where you like it the best, it looks like to me.
[Transcribed verbatim by JAM.]
Second of all, I surely wouldn't let you treat me like a second-class citizen, and you can think of me what you want. But I know if there was 20 pool players lined up, I wouldn't be the only one thinking the way I do. You're just another one of those guys, in my opinion, that hides behind a computer and got nothing good to say about a pool player.
I guess if I was a betting man, though, which I am, what's really sad is we don't know who you are. It doesn't look like to me the pool players want to know who you are with your 20 percent bullshit. Boy, I'd love to be able to stake somebody and give them 20 percent. That would be a real nice deal. I've never, ever done that in my life. Never will. Even when I win money betting on the side, if I win 800, I'll go over and hand them 300 because that's how I roll and that's how you're supposed to do it. Don't sneak out of a pool room and give them zero like you would. You're one of those guys. Don't care to have any more conversation with you about this matter. You keep your nitty rear end where it belongs: behind the computer. That's where you like it the best, it looks like to me.
[Transcribed verbatim by JAM.]
I never would have guessed Grady Seasons would resort to egomaniacal tactics to win an internet argument. lol
Getting money is not easy - otherwise we would all be rich and this thread would not exist.
The fact that an individual carries finical wealth is not to say they did not earn or SWEAT it.
Should they then decide to seek 'their' entertainment by pledging a few $$$ in the direction of a pool player is neither here or there. Except that the offer has been made, thus creating opportunity to the player.
If the player is PREPARED (practiced) for their OPPORTUNITY (right place right time) then he or she will create their own luck, thus creating a win win situation.
Why on earth should any backer just throw their money away?
Even VEGAS carries a % win reward otherwise it would just be desert... :thumbup:
It depends on how heavily you were favored to win the match. If you were roughly 55% or less favorite to win the match, it is actually use and abuse of the backer, because the backer is going to lose money with that bet. But we know you wouldn't ever do that intentionally, you just didn't know, as most players don't know. It is shocking what a favorite you have to be in a match for a stake horse to make money.
Here is the math:
Lets say a backer backs you for twenty sets at $1000 each. The split is 80/20 with 80% going to the backer. You are 55% favorite over your opponent (which is about what it would be in a real tough match where you are only a slight favorite). As 55% favorite, you win 55% of the sets, which means you won 11 out of the 20 sets. Your side won $11,000, and the other side won $9,000. The backer's 80% cut of the $11,000 is $8,800. But he lost $9,000 by losing 9 of the 20 sets. So $8,800 winnings minus the $9,000 loss means the backer actually comes out loser by $200. Your 20% cut of the winnings was $2,200.
So when you were the 55% favorite over your opponent, and doing an 80/20 split, your backer lost $200. No matter what, he can only lose money with this bet. The 80/20 split is horrible for him unless you are more heavily favored over your opponent than that. And you could only win money with this arrangement, and in this case you made $2,200. And if you were only a 54% favorite it would have been even worse for the backer with an even bigger loss for him.
With an 80/20 split and you being 55% favorite (a close match but one where you were slight favorite), when looking at the backer and you, one of you can only win money at that game, and one of you can only lose money at that game. As you can see, there was nothing fair or reasonable about that arrangement at all--for the backer. He got used and abused even though neither of you knew or realized it.
Great post. I enjoy reading your personal experiences.
I agreed with most of what you wrote as it would seem that the pool player should ALWAYS choose their own destiny if and where possible...
Where we disagree is the idea that a 'business man' should not seek good business out of the pool player. The word abuse has many connotations - but are pool players abused if they agree on 20% - especially if they are broke and can not afford 1% themselves?
I think it's more abusive to watch someone struggle to stand upright - (make good on their bet by winning) - then to watch them just fall face down in the dirt again - (by gambling their 20% away) - That I would call abuse.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish... :thumbup:
I totally understand your point of view but having been on the other side of the fence, it can really be brutal and insulting as well. No disrespect intended but to me, the player need the backer more than the backer needs the player. A backer can get his fix betting on the side, going to the casino, betting sports... whatever. The gambling high can be found in lots of places. And if you're in the position to back someone, the money isn't really a huge issue. At the same time, a player who WON'T back himself, makes you wonder about how much he likes the game and a player who CAN'T back himself should be pretty grateful they're about to be in a position to shoot at some free money. At the end of the day, that's really what you're doing... being backed is zero risk, all reward no matter what % you get.
Having said that, I've only ever backed my personal friends to help them or great players in situations where they're stealing and I've always split either down the middle or close to it.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!
Jam's thinking (I know if can't be Keith's) is that 20% is an insult. If its an insult then don't play or at least put up some of your own cash to increase your take if you win.
Any one who needs someone else to take all the risk must not have much confidence in themselves.
Don
Jam's thinking (I know if can't be Keith's) is that 20% is an insult. If its an insult then don't play or at least put up some of your own cash to increase your take if you win.
Any one who needs someone else to take all the risk must not have much confidence in themselves.
Don
I believe the backer would be $2000 to the good after 20 sets in the scenario below...win 11 - lose 9. You'd win the difference between the counts, so the split would be $1600/$400. It's not the total wins, it's the difference between the wins/losses. The count would be based on +11-9=+2:groucho:
This is correct. It's always the difference between wins and losses, and as long as you won more sets than you lost, then you make out with a profit.
Have you ever gambled or been in a pool room, internet not counting???
The player in your example is getting $200 more than the total they won?
WILL YOU BACK ME ?
Last edited:
A good pool player spends his/her life learning to play and move around a pool hall. Then a person with money comes along and puts up the money and wants to split the winnings. Personally, I think it's an insult for the person putting up the money to THINK he's entitled to MORE than 1/2. Remember in the pool world there is a lot of dumping that goes on. There are so many factors that come in to play. 50/50 if you play yourself, then that's fair. The odd split come from the movie "color of money", which is just a movie. I NEVER liked that part of the movie or did I like the last part. I did like the movie though. Again, there are a lot of factors that come into play, when playing, getting backed and the split. Just my thoughts.
Last edited:
I think you are looking at it as if it was just one single gambling session, all 20 sets at one time back to back and then settle up at the end, which is essentially just one gambling session. I was talking about 20 different gambling sessions, each being a set for $1000. Think about it as being one session per day or week if that helps. The backer is going to take the full loss on 9 of those sets, so he is $9000 negative in the hole, because each of those 9 sessions that he lost, he was on the hook for the full $1000 loss. But on each of the 11 times your side won, the backer had to give the player 20%. So for each one of those 11 wins, the player got $200 (his 20% of $1000) and the backer got $800 (his 80% of $1000).
So in total, for the 11 wins, the player made $2200 ($200 x 11), and the backer made $8800 ($800 x 11). Of course the player doesn't have any losses so he nets his full $2200. The backer on the other hand lost $9000 in those 9 losing sessions which he took the sole loss on, and when you subtract that $9000 loss from the $8800 that he won, he nets a loss of $200.
So at an 80/20 split, if you backed a player who was slightly favored in a tough match and who won 55% of his gambling sessions for $1000 each, the backer lost $200, and the player won $2200.
BBBBBbbb but PoolPlaya9 is a genius, how could that be ???? LOL LOL LOL
Actually I was correct with my post, and just explained it for those that made a simple but easy mistake to make.