Did i buy a p.o.s. Table>?

F

FlashPoint77

Registered
First off, Hello Everyone!
Ok so here is what I bought.
8' Brunswick Shorewood Mahogany ($1600) with Centennial Cloth ($300). I bought it new just two weeks ago from a Billards Store. They installed it in the carpeted upstairs gameroom(1/2" pad ..medium length ...brand new). So the biggest problem I have seen with the table is the uneven roll. The day they installed it I noticed the roll and called them up and complained. They sent out the same two monkey's that installed it and they took some measurements which said the table was level (with a homedepot level). When I showed them how the balls rolled funny accross the table (2-3 inch offset on a slow roll ..mostly next to the rails longways) they decided to shim the legs with some thin pieces of wood (only two different thicknesses!!! shouldn't they have a better way to shim the legs?). Two weeks later the roll is still there, but the funny thing is that it is not consistent side to side of the table (the table is not high to one side). The place I bought it from tells me that the table will need 4-6 weeks to settle, and then they will come out and re-level it ...which I think is a load of horse crap. Is it possible that a new table could have a jacked up slate? Or is the table just a P.O.S.? I would think that a 1,600 dollar table could be leveled properly or am I wrong? Could it be the free balls they gave me..are shitty balls (uneven)? Let me know what you guys think. Thank you.
 
btoneill

btoneill

Keeper of the Cheese
Silver Member
While I am NOT a mechanic, I can tell you that a standard level is not adequate for leveling a pool table. They should be using a machinist level which is much more accurate.

As for if it's a POS, any table plays only as good as the mechanic working on it can make it play!


Brian
 
F

FlashPoint77

Registered
I can post a video later if that would help ... So from what your telling me. ..the monkey's did a shitty job. Do you think they will come out and take their time on the next level?
 
reverend

reverend

Table Mechanic
Silver Member
It could be a combination of everything you mentioned...

Carpeted upstairs game room - If the subfloor under the table is not completely firm, you can get movement on the rolling ball as you walk around the table from side to side. The new thick carpet can take a while for the table to settle in. On thick new carpet I like to let the table settle in place with the slate on it for a few days before the job is completed. This does not happen all the time, but when I can I like to do it that way.

Home depot level - As mentioned before, this is not the proper tool for leveling tables. You can get an idea of how level the table is with one of these 4 foot wonders, but you will never get the proper results without a machinist level.

Bad slate on new table - Slate is a natural product, so there are some inconsistencies. New slate can be warped, crowned, or swayback right out of the factory. This is not real likely, but can be something as well.

After all of that mess, I would most likely say that the installer monkeys are to blame. If I were you, I would wait a few days and call them back and have them level it. This time do not let the guys leave until you are satisfied with every roll on the table.

Good luck and congrats on the new table. Welcome to the forums.
 
JZMechanix

JZMechanix

Active member
Silver Member
I would ask them to use a machinist's level. If they don't have one or look at you funny then I would hire someone else!

On a side note, I installed a table in an upstairs gameroom and you could see the bubble move on my Starrett as you walked around the table! If your floor isn't sturdy enough it could cause a problem, depending on where you're standing :wink:

Never rule out the fact that the balls might not be round either. On this same table I had the slate leveled up and when I rolled the customers' "good" balls they drifted a couple of inches. This guy had a spare set of "Budweiser" balls and they rolled true! :thumbup: Since then I always carry my own cue ball that I know is round to do sanity checks on the slate.

I'd say if they leveled the slate with a :nono: carpenter level :nono: you need to find a new mechanic!
 
Club Billiards

Club Billiards

Absolute Billiard Service
Silver Member
JZMechanix said:
I would ask them to use a machinist's level. If they don't have one or look at you funny then I would hire someone else!

On a side note, I installed a table in an upstairs gameroom and you could see the bubble move on my Starrett as you walked around the table! If your floor isn't sturdy enough it could cause a problem, depending on where you're standing :wink:

Never rule out the fact that the balls might not be round either. On this same table I had the slate leveled up and when I rolled the customers' "good" balls they drifted a couple of inches. This guy had a spare set of "Budweiser" balls and they rolled true! :thumbup: Since then I always carry my own cue ball that I know is round to do sanity checks on the slate.

I'd say if they leveled the slate with a :nono: carpenter level :nono: you need to find a new mechanic!
Click to expand...

Might have trouble hiring a new mechanic as you guys suggest if the "mechanics" that did the work so far are just a couple of hacks that the store uses to slap together their tables. Now you might have issues with the table. Unfortunately, some issues take the right mechanic with the right tools and knowledge to be able to know what the issues are. Those guys with their carpenter's level might not be able to find small imperfections in the slate that could cause a ball to roll off. The bad thing is, if that store only has those two guys to send out, who else are you going to hire? Are you supposed to research/find/pay a qualified mechanic to detect/correct the problems, or should the store be responsible for making it right even if it's corrected by someone outside their company? If that's the case, the store might hit you with anyone not authorized by Brunswick to service your table will void your warranty. If you threaten to have them take the table back if they can't make it right, you'll most likely get hit with a 15% restocking fee which will cost you $240 to send it back on a $1600 table.

These guys have pretty much got it nailed. It could be bad slate. It could be settling into carpet or a weak floor. It could be untrue balls or it could be hack installers. It could even be design flaws in the table that make it more difficult to level or to keep it level.

I hope you're able to get it resolved. Let us know what you find out.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You should probably let us know where you are...someone can likely provide you with info re: a reputable table guy in your area.
 
scruffy1

scruffy1

New member
Silver Member
If these guys are not using machinist levels to level pool tables, in my opinion your wasting your time with them.

That table is gonna have to come apart at least to the slate to properly level
and check for slate issues.
 
ChrisShanklin

ChrisShanklin

Banned
Club Billiards said:
Might have trouble hiring a new mechanic as you guys suggest if the "mechanics" that did the work so far are just a couple of hacks that the store uses to slap together their tables. Now you might have issues with the table. Unfortunately, some issues take the right mechanic with the right tools and knowledge to be able to know what the issues are. Those guys with their carpenter's level might not be able to find small imperfections in the slate that could cause a ball to roll off. The bad thing is, if that store only has those two guys to send out, who else are you going to hire? Are you supposed to research/find/pay a qualified mechanic to detect/correct the problems, or should the store be responsible for making it right even if it's corrected by someone outside their company? If that's the case, the store might hit you with anyone not authorized by Brunswick to service your table will void your warranty. If you threaten to have them take the table back if they can't make it right, you'll most likely get hit with a 15% restocking fee which will cost you $240 to send it back on a $1600 table.

These guys have pretty much got it nailed. It could be bad slate. It could be settling into carpet or a weak floor. It could be untrue balls or it could be hack installers. It could even be design flaws in the table that make it more difficult to level or to keep it level.

I hope you're able to get it resolved. Let us know what you find out.
Click to expand...

What the store doesn't know, won't hurt you. If you have a reputable mechanic service the table correctly, you shouldn't have any issues, and if you do they won't know it needed to be fixed.
 
F

FlashPoint77

Registered
The table is brand new, I refuse to pay another mechanic to service the table. I just wanted to get some input from mechanics on what the problem could be and if this table is a piece of crap and will never level correctly. If the table is able to be leveled by a more experienced person then I am going to talk to the store about hiring someone else to do the job since the people they sent out the first/second time are terrible mechanics. I was basically trying to determine if the behavior in my video is normal or not ...thank you.
 
Jim Vondrell

Jim Vondrell

Accu-Level Billiard Svc
Silver Member
The table is most probably not level and after some settling the table should be able to get level by someone with at least the right equipment. What kind of balls are you using? Not so great balls can do all sorts of weird things when they are rolling slow (wobbling to a stop, falling left or right or rocking when stopping)
 
M

mechanic/player

Active member
Silver Member
I have set up at least a dozen of these this year with no issues. It is not a bad table at all, the frame is similar to higher priced tables and the Centennial cushions are a pretty fast cushion. Do you agree?

The video is not the way it should roll. Do you have framed or un-framed slate. I would bet un-framed. It needs to be re-leveled, slates and frame.

Try lagging the ball back and forth in different spots across the short side of the table, diamond to diamond and I would bet it 's off that way to.
 
F

FlashPoint77

Registered
The table plays pretty fast considering the rails and the cloth that I chose. I took a look under the table and I do see a thick "wood frame" under the table, but it looks like the cloth is stapled to the slate..? Also it looks like the installers used wooden ramps in a few locations to level out the slate to the table. I will post pictures later on this evening after work. Again, how long should it take for a table to "settle in"?


here is the video of the pictures i took. Let me know what you guys think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms6-1jyHcwA
 
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LWW

LWW

MEMGO5
Silver Member
btoneill said:
While I am NOT a mechanic, I can tell you that a standard level is not adequate for leveling a pool table. They should be using a machinist level which is much more accurate.

As for if it's a POS, any table plays only as good as the mechanic working on it can make it play!


Brian
Click to expand...

A longer level will help find the problem perhaps, but as far as levels go ... a fluid level is a fluid level, assuming they all have a properly flat and true bottom. A roll like described isn't going to be caused by a .0001" discrepancy.

A more expensive version may hold up better to abuse, but fluid finds it's own level.

LWW
 
M

mechanic/player

Active member
Silver Member
I would think about 30 days for most tables, as said earlier if they are not using a machinist level they may not ever get it right.
 
M

mechanic/player

Active member
Silver Member
Well, It's not the worst looking job I've ever seen. Call them back at 30 days and show them all the issues you have with it. I would bet this isn't their first callback they ever had. I know Brunswick wants you to be happy with your purchase, I cant speak for your local dealer because I don't know them.

What state are you in?
 
R

Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LWW said:
A longer level will help find the problem perhaps, but as far as levels go ... a fluid level is a fluid level, assuming they all have a properly flat and true bottom. A roll like described isn't going to be caused by a .0001" discrepancy.

A more expensive version may hold up better to abuse, but fluid finds it's own level.

LWW
Click to expand...

No, a fluid Carpenter level is a fluid carpenter level.

Little lesson for ya on levels, more specifically Vials for Levels,,,,,,what do ya think would happen if the glass vial for the level was precision ground for more consistency in shape, rather than blown glass or molded plastic as seen on most carpenter levels, and also what if that precision ground vial was held to a straighter curvature, ie, larger radial curve. Stands to reason the level would be much more accurate, which it definitely is! plus it's calibratable.

L.S. Starret makes at least 2 different precision level models that I know of for sure, one is the 98 series, which are accurate to .005" per foot, per vial graduation, and not very expensive, and much more accurate than any carpenter level any where near the same price range.

They also make a Master Series, with accuracy to .0005" per foot, and the primary difference between the two is the curvature and accuracy of the grind inside the glass vial.
 
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