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Patrick Johnson
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08-25-2019, 07:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Actually, stroke has everything to do with why skids happen.
Nope, don't think so. How do you think that happens?

Quote:
I can almost intentionally cause a ball to skid by stroking through the cue ball incorrectly.
Why "almost" if the stroke controls it?

Quote:
How else is the cue ball going to cause a skid if the stroke doesn’t tell the cue ball what to do?
The cue ball doesn't cause a skid - more than usual friction between the balls at the point of contact does (usually a spot of chalk on the CB).

This is pretty well known.

pj
chgo
  
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08-25-2019, 07:59 AM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Nope, don't think so. How do you think that happens?


Why "almost" if the stroke controls it?


The cue ball doesn't cause a skid - more than usual friction between the balls at the point of contact does (usually a spot of chalk on the CB).

This is pretty well known.

pj
chgo
So you can’t provide evidence as to why you don’t think so? “It is known”? Pathetic

And why almost, because it’s hard to neuter a stroke intentionally to maintain a skid level contact. And I mean almost in the sense of 7/10 attempts I could cause a skid, 3/10 my stroke wouldn’t be quite right.

An object ball cannot be skidded without the cue ball contacting it. So explain how the cue ball doesn’t cause the skid when it is literally half the equation for a skid to occur? A perfectly clean cue ball, object ball, and clean cloth still cause skids.

If it isn’t an improper stroking of the cue ball that causes skids, then why does every pro level situation in which we see the skid only occur happen when the player is attempting a slight stun/roll shot?
  
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  (#33)
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08-25-2019, 08:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
So you can’t provide evidence as to why you don’t think so?
Actually, you can provide the evidence (if you really want to know)...

Hit a bunch of shots with and without whatever stroke you think makes skids more likely. Tell us how many more skids you get with the "skid stroke". (Not normal throw just maximized with a stun hit, but actual obvious skid.)

Thanks in advance,

pj
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 08-25-2019 at 08:07 AM.
  
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08-25-2019, 08:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Actually, you can provide the evidence (if you really want to know)...

Hit a bunch of shots with and without whatever stroke you think makes skids more likely. Tell us how many more skids you get with the "skid stroke". (Not normal throw made a little "extra" with a stun hit, but actual obvious skid.)

Thanks in advance,

pj
chgo
I’m providing reasoning to my introduction of the topic. You’re just spouting off saying “it is known” without any justification. A skid occurs when the cue ball has extended contact with the object ball. That occurs when the cue ball has more forward momentum of itself than it imparts on the object ball. The cue ball is effectively trying to climb up the object ball, and that’s what causes the skid. Extra chalk at contact point increases the chances of a skid. But a cleanly/properly struck cue ball will never cause a skid.
  
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08-25-2019, 08:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
I’m providing reasoning to my introduction of the topic. You’re just spouting off saying “it is known” without any justification.
If you're actually interested in learning about it, it's been discussed lots of times here - do a search and pay special attention to what Dr. Dave, Bob Jewett and Mike Page (our resident scientists) say about it. For starters, here's Dr. Dave's "resource page" about the topic.

Quote:
A skid occurs when the cue ball has extended contact with the object ball. That occurs when the cue ball has more forward momentum of itself than it imparts on the object ball.
I get how it can seem that way, but I don't think that actually means anything.

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08-25-2019, 08:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
If you're actually interested in learning about it, it's been discussed lots of times here - do a search and pay special attention to what Dr. Dave, Bob Jewett and Mike Page (our resident scientists) say about it. For starters, here's Dr. Dave's "resource page" about the topic.


I get how it can seem that way, but I don't think that actually means anything.

pj
chgo
Well for one, you can stop thinking, and actually start knowing. How else does a cue ball extend its contact time? Proper speed/spin at contact. You’re really grasping at straws here Patrick. Knock it off.
  
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08-25-2019, 08:55 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
How else does a cue ball extend its contact time?
As I (and the others I recommended to you) have said over and over, nothing the cue ball does extends its own contact time beyond normal throw - extra friction between the CB and OB exactly at the point of contact (usually a spot of chalk) does that.

No skin off my nose if you don't want to learn about this stuff - but other readers deserve the facts.

pj
chgo
  
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  (#38)
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08-25-2019, 08:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
As I (and the others I recommended to you) have said over and over, nothing the cue ball does extends its own contact time beyond normal throw - extra friction between the CB and OB exactly at the point of contact (usually a spot of chalk) does that.

No skin off my nose if you don't want to learn about this stuff - but other readers deserve the facts.

pj
chgo
PJ, i see about 2-3 skids a month(either mine or other's) and its ALWAYS dirty balls. Totally agree with your's, Dr.D's and others on this.
  
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08-25-2019, 09:03 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
PJ, i see about 2-3 skids a month(either mine or other's) and its ALWAYS dirty balls. Totally agree with your's, Dr.D's and others on this.
I think there might be some confusion about more normal throw vs. skid. For instance, a slow stun hit increases the amount of normal throw - that could be mistaken for skid.

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08-25-2019, 09:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I think there might be some confusion about more normal throw vs. skid. For instance, a slow stun hit increases the amount of normal throw - that could be mistaken for skid.

pj
chgo
No doubt......
  
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08-25-2019, 09:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
As I (and the others I recommended to you) have said over and over, nothing the cue ball does extends its own contact time beyond normal throw - extra friction between the CB and OB exactly at the point of contact (usually a spot of chalk) does that.

No skin off my nose if you don't want to learn about this stuff - but other readers deserve the facts.

pj
chgo
Then please provide facts other then just spouting off with “it is known” bullshit. Dirty balls don’t just skid themselves, or else every freaking shot ever would skid. You're trying to lump a very specific action into a very general sense of things.

First off, I’m not confusing throw and skid. A skid has a visual and audible difference. A ball is leaving the playing surface in the cb->ob collision. Slo-mo has confirmed this many times over. You’ll also never get a skid off of a slight draw shot. Only when using slight stun/follow/roll through. Like I keep saying, an improply stroked cue ball is what leads to skids. Knowing conditions and proper striking of the cue ball will eliminate skids.

Edit: to make sure we are all on the same page. All the balls are to be considered of same size and weight.
  
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08-25-2019, 09:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
...please provide facts other then just spouting off with “it is known” bullshit.
If you were really interested in facts you'd be reading Dr. Dave's "Pool Ball Cling, Skid, or Kick" resource page (<- second time I've given you the link) rather than arguing pointlessly here.

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08-25-2019, 10:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
If you were really interested in facts you'd be reading Dr. Dave's "Pool Ball Cling, Skid, or Kick" resource page (<- second time I've given you the link) rather than arguing pointlessly here.

pj
chgo
Count the number of replies you made before you tried to back pedal with his link.
  
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08-25-2019, 10:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Count the number of replies you made before you tried to back pedal with his link.
C'mon guys. You want rulers to start measuring here?
  
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08-25-2019, 10:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Count the number of replies you made before you tried to back pedal with his link.
I'll get right on that.

First things first... *plonk*

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