Outsville......... Q and A: Everything Pool.....

Outsville has grown up here on AZ over the last 4 years. We make Ki-Tech Single Layered Performance tips, The Accu-Rack SOLO and Diamond 9ball templates, The Hammerhead Break tip, and Great White chalk...

We are working on several new products and we will be seeking feedback from forum members as we move them out of R&D into testing...

Since we are a manufacturer and since it can sometimes seem like I am actively selling anytime I post on a topic that concerns our competitors products I have decided to just stay in this thread to avoid anyone thinking we are abusing the forum... If you think this is a 100% sales thread just don't read it....

In learning to make the products we make, we have done extensive testing on a myriad of topics, From tips, to chalks.. to shafts, jump/break cues... Spring Dynamics... Synthetics.. Deflection.. and we have feedback from 100s of players on their opinions on a myriad of products.....

As such if you have questions about something billiard related I will try and answer... I will also post questions and ask for feedback from time to time in here... I may not have all the answers but I will answer to the best of my ability and will 100% qualify any statement I make as either fact or opinions....

So with that out of the way... Welcome to Outsville.... Population: Growing....

Chris

CHALK everything you likely never wanted to know....

OK I posted this in another group when they got me up on the soapbox so am posting it here because I think it's good information for anyone....

Let me see if I can explain the differences in at least chalks....

Under a microscope if you were to look at the surface of the cheaper chalks you would notice that not every bit of the surface area is covered in abrasives... For Master you would only see about a 25% surface area that contained abrasives. You would also note that all the abrasives were not the same size.. Some will be larger and some will be smaller...

Once you move up to say Blue Diamond you will notice that there is 2x the amount of abrasives and that they had been graded because pretty much all of them will be the same size...

This matters for 3 reasons...

1)You can chalk with cheap chalk and misscue because you didn't really didn't get anything on the tip but binders and maybe small abrasives... This is a RARE occurance but if you gamble, play tournaments or lague where one game might mean something it still matters.. Think about that the next time you chalk up and misscue... Sometimes it wasn't the stroke.....

2)Glazing... ALL tips glaze... Some do it worse than others and some do it so little you don't ever really notice... While tip construction can make a tip glaze easier it is the chalk or the chalking habit that causes the glazing... Any time the abrasives have ruptured down in size to where they are barely gripping you get microslips... This is when you didn't misscue but you didn't get all the spin you think you should have... When this happens you are burnishing your tip just a little bit and over time the whole tip is glazed... With the premium chalks since there are larger and more abrasives there are fewer micrslips and you will start to feel them if you have to use one of the cheaper chalks because you left the good stuff at home...

3)Frequency of chalking... I chalk every time if I am in a tournament or gambling and it's part of my PSR... Not everyone does and with the premium chalks you really don't have to.... If you chalk at the beginning of the game you will have fresh full size abrasives... Picture them stacked like gravel... Every shot crushes the gravels against each other with enough force to cause them to fracture... Enough shots and you no longer have any gravel.. All you have is sand which may not be large enough in particle size to grip the cueball... Cheaper chalks and you have no way to know when you will get to the sand instead of gravel stage.....

I really don't care if you buy our chalk or one of the other premium chalks. I would of course prefer you buy ours but..........

Once you are into the premium chalks it's about prefernce... About how it feels when you are putting it on, how it feels hitting the ball, how messy it is or isn't...

2 cubes for most premiums will run you under $20 bucks including shipping... They will last you a year so it's not really about price when you factor it in by the day or especially by the number of good shots you get out of a cube.....

Chris

fathomblue said:

The Accu-Rack Solo and Diamond racking templates are the best new pool product of 2015. Seriously.

How's that for a conversation-starter?

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LOL appreciate the testimonial but lets stick to the chalk post for a bit....

Did you know that chalk was originally white? because of the oil lamps, tobacco use and lack of ventilation the cubes would turn a nasty blueish yellow... Color was added not to blend in with the cloth but the keep the chalk from looking totally disgusting......

poolhustler said:

I'll give it a go with a comment and question.

Comment: I tried the Great White chalk and while I loved the performance aspect it made a huge mess on my table. Same issue I had with the Kamui chalk. Makes a mess.

Question: Is it possible to manufacture the GW chalk that is blue in color and is not so "makeup" like? Something in between typical chalk like BD or Masters, but with the performance aspect of GW.

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Actually we had problems with the Christmas run... I had purchased a used Hobart mixer that had been reconditioned... The rpms settings were fried and the mixer ran wayyyyy too fast..

The Christmas chalk had air introduced into the mixture for part of the run because we switched mixers midstream...

I purchased a new mixture in planning for starting back into production and with my eyes on doing "Deep Blue" soon as possible... As soon as I turned it on I slapped myself in the forehead... The current version of Great White is not flaky but we will be offering 2 versions.. C and D... C for Creamy and D for Dry... We will see what happens going forward and one of them may take the dirt nap....

Chris

Shannon.spronk said:

So you said anything billiard related so here goes? Who is going to make the Mosconi Cup team for USA and is Mosconi's 526 the greatest accomplishment in pool?

Haha Chris just giving you a hard time. My actual question is do you feel that there is a synthetic material out there that we might use for tips at some point that will make some of the inconsistencies people find between tips a thing of the past?

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Basically we will eventually end up moving onto Synthetics... just don't expect it to be too soon... The issue is that leather is hookian in nature... That means that it obeys the law that governs spring compression.. Synthetics only obey hooke's law is the contact is short because they are very hard and you are almost getting solid on solid contact....

Everyone thinks that you should be able to make a tip out of rubber and be good to go... bzzzt rubber is non-hookian and does not respond like a spring like leather does whenstruck with differing amounts of force....

I keep testing and looking and so do several several others... Porper actually has a synthetic tip out... Just remembered that I need to get one in for testing.... If this was golf it would have already happened.....


As far as the Mosconi cup... I am predicting 5 Americans and 5 Europeans with Thorsten once again not being invited which in my opinion is a bunch of BS butttt you can't invite everyone LOL I like Toastie and when he was number 1 in the word they skipped over him.. I still hold a small grudge...

As far as the 526? In my opinion it's still the tops... 8ft table... No shelf... They gave him any balls that hung... yeah yeah we have heard it all but noone has posted a 527 in a qualified manner... I would love love love for someone to dig that table out and take it to DCC for the straight pool challenge... I still don't know if it will get broken... It WAS set in the golden age of 14.1 and Eufemia was said to have several runs over 600 but they did not qualify as being recognized.....

LOL Chris

Mr. Bond said:

lol somebody is pulling your leg

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You would likely be the one who could correct that if so...

I will try to find the article. It was from a snooker publication and post it here... Since the first chalks were naturally occuring mineral deposits it made sense to the smell test..

I have no idea what color the Spinks chalk was but maybe just maybe your museum has some? I have only seen images of the box....

Chris

edep12 said:

My home table has tan/camel cloth and one of the pleasant unintended side effects of choosing this color cloth is that I use tan/brown chalk which is really good about not staining your shafts/ferrules like is typical for standard blue chalk, but the premium chalks all seem to be coming out in blue (understand yours is white which gives me hope the tide is turning some) and since a side effect of these chalks seem to be getting all over everything I would prefer to get some that matches my cloth.

So, do you have plans to expand your line to offer a range of colors similar to the colors offered by Simonis, for example, like the other non-premium chalk makers have done (Silver Cup, Master, etc.)? If so, when?

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We will do "Deep Blue" for sure but I do not know if we will expand colors past that.. The "Great White" is non-staining... And I have patrons using it on all different color cloths... Eventually you end up with a dirty table and you CAN see that it's dirty but it doesn't leave stains.. I actually like this because I can clean the table before the balls start skidding and throwing..

At the expo after I had stated that someone took a piece of our chalk and drew on the pool table... If you have kids you know THAT is game over... The only way it's coming out is off to the dry cleaners with the bed cloth... It took a few cleanings with Quick Clean, which is what I always use. It's GOOD stuff!! But it came out without leaving a stain....

But YOU want something that matches and maybe the Great White doesn't float your boat because you will still see it... Kamui has released a MAPLE color... So you have 2 options.......

Chris

Baxter said:

Will the Hammerhead break tip damage the cue ball at all? I'm talking about the little half-moon cracks that phenolic, G10, and other synthetic tips can cause.

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StraightPoolIU said:

I was curious about the Hammerhead break tip. I know it's a synthetic, but I've seen your posts on facebook about it not being like G10 or phenolic in that it cuts easier and offers control on the break. I was wondering why it needs a special kind of glue to install properly? If that's a trade secret I understand, but I was curious because every time I think of switching to a new break tip I'm always leery because I've heard so many people having problems with break tips like Samsaras popping off. I have a Joss Thor Hammer with the Joss break tip on there, and if I cut it off and don't like the replacement (or if the replacement won't stay glued on) it may be hard to get another. Also, I think I'd feel a little awkward asking my tip guy to use my special glue to put it on. I could see how a repairman could take that the wrong way, but maybe I'm crazy.

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The Hammerhead is a new synthetic... It was developed for "Impact"... But that does not mean it has to be like the g10/11 or phenolics...

The Hammerhead is a little softer and that means that it creates a slightly larger contact patch because it gives a little bit so the microfractures do not happen... Well they do not happen with me breaking, I am getting old and 26mph is as high as I can go at 46... Dechaine unleashes a 32mph break I feel bad for the cueball regardless of what tip he hit it with LOL... So normally the Hammerhead should not cause damage to the cueball....

When I say softer don't read that as slower.. The COR on the Hammerhead is actually higher than many of the phenolics I have tested.... It's in the speed range of the g10/11 without the scating the razorblade on controlling it...

It does require a toughened or rubberized CA... We sell a glue in an install kit that works.. It's Loctite 380..

We did some additional testing and we also found that BSI IC 2000 works well and holds up and it can be found at any Hobby Town in the country..... ASI makes a TS series that also works... The keys being toughened or rubber toughened... Look for those words.....

Regular super glues just do not have the bonding strength to hold up... We tried Loctite 401 and took out a light above the table and we tried the lighter Devcon epoxy and launched a tip about 100ft across the room...

I "think" it's more about how the material reacts at impact than it being too slick to work with regular glues...

You treat it like a normal tip and use your shaper or tippick if it gets too slick to hold chalk well so getting a good crosshatch on the back for install is not a problem so that wasn't the issue during install....

Chris

measureman said:

I was wondering if you sent my tips?

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Yes Bruce =D