conical taper and a closed bridge

deanoc · Dec 14, 2019

this is a nice spirited thread
everybody says something smart
and i can't tell what it means

i never realized there was so much thinking involved

I can tell that some people think the conical taper is not good for
a closed bridge

Others,including myself,don't see it as a problem

One thing I want to understand is why I like schon and don't like pro taper

I don't mean a 1005 conical taper is necessary
But staying thin for too long is what i mean by pro taper

Is Schon sorta conical

at least more than a meucci

I just got a new one in the mail today and what ever it is I love it

Patrick Johnson · Dec 14, 2019

Agent 99 said:
...if you use a closed bridge, your bridge will always be too lose or too tight as you stroke back and forth.

I suppose you mean a tight closed bridge - in that case I think it probably depends on the player.

I use a very loose "closed" bridge - just as a way to make an open bridge narrower in tight quarters. It's the same v-groove just one finger over, with the skipped index finger looped over the top because there's no place else to put it.

If you want to use a conical shaft you have to commit to using an open bridge all the time.

With a loose closed bridge the taper shouldn't matter.

pj
chgo

KissedOut · Dec 14, 2019

Agent 99 said:
It has nothing to do with 'psychological feel.' It has to do with dimensions and basic physics. A conical shaft has a constant taper, meaning that it is never the same diameter anywhere on the shaft. So, if you use a closed bridge, your bridge will always be too lose or too tight as you stroke back and forth. If you want to use a conical shaft you have to commit to using an open bridge all the time.

Just because you can't do something doesn't mean others can't. The vast majority of world class 3c billiard players, for whom a conical taper in a closed bridge is bread and butter, and for whose game both extreme accuracy and extreme power/spin are required, would beg to differ with your conclusions.

JoeyInCali · Dec 14, 2019

deanoc said:
this is a nice spirited thread
everybody says something smart
and i can't tell what it means

i never realized there was so much thinking involved

I can tell that some people think the conical taper is not good for
a closed bridge

Others,including myself,don't see it as a problem

One thing I want to understand is why I like schon and don't like pro taper

I don't mean a 1005 conical taper is necessary
But staying thin for too long is what i mean by pro taper

Is Schon sorta conical

at least more than a meucci

I just got a new one in the mail today and what ever it is I love it

No. Schon still has the pro-taper in it's original meaning .
Barely over a millimeter of taper to the middle of the shaft.
Moochi with be like 1/4 of a mm to the middle.

Schuler would be close to a conical taper. Some 2mm taper to the middle of the shaft .

Even SW have a thick taper to the middle . A lot of those Taiwanese pool players who play with a SW sand their shafts .

Agent 99 · Dec 14, 2019

KissedOut said:
Just because you can't do something doesn't mean others can't. The vast majority of world class 3c billiard players, for whom a conical taper in a closed bridge is bread and butter, and for whose game both extreme accuracy and extreme power/spin are required, would beg to differ with your conclusions.

Well, I am a pool player, no snooker or 3C for me. Those games are as relevant to me as curling and field hockey. Now if using a closed bridge that changes in shape every time your cue is stroked back and forth, you are adding a moving part to your delivery, and yes, that is a fact. Personally I have always been in favor of eliminating any and all moving parts that are not essential to pocking balls, but to each their own. Perhaps some can play standing on their head while holding the cue with their feet, and that's just great, but it's not for me.

Bavafongoul · Dec 14, 2019

90% of the time I use a closed bridge vs. open.
None of my cues’ shafts have a diameter >13mm.
Conversely, none of the cue shafts are <12.75mm.
The custom cues I’ve ordered use pro taper of 17-18”.

I find a longer pro taper just feels better in my hands &
I can squeeze my bridge fingers to keep a tighter loop.
It helps my aim and delivering a straighter cue stroke.

KissedOut · Dec 15, 2019

Agent 99 said:
Well, I am a pool player, no snooker or 3C for me. Those games are as relevant to me as curling and field hockey. Now if using a closed bridge that changes in shape every time your cue is stroked back and forth, you are adding a moving part to your delivery, and yes, that is a fact. Personally I have always been in favor of eliminating any and all moving parts that are not essential to pocking balls, but to each their own. Perhaps some can play standing on their head while holding the cue with their feet, and that's just great, but it's not for me.

If your conclusion were correct it would be correct for all games because it is based on specific physical claims about something that is game independent. Your little mockery at the end doesn't change the fact that you are just wrong. And others have pointed it out in the pool context as well. But perhaps you know more than them - as well as the world of 3c players.

Just admit you overstated your case based on your lack of familiarity with the way some other people play.

Patrick Johnson · Dec 15, 2019

Agent 99 said:
... if using a closed bridge that changes in shape every time your cue is stroked back and forth, you are adding a moving part to your delivery

I suppose you mean the index finger moving up and down a little as the shaft gets fatter/thinner - but as long as the shaft doesn't lift out of the v-groove it rides in there's no effect on its movement.

And of course there's not even any finger movement with a loose closed bridge (or an open bridge).

pj
chgo

Agent 99 · Dec 15, 2019

KissedOut said:
If your conclusion were correct it would be correct for all games because it is based on specific physical claims about something that is game independent. Your little mockery at the end doesn't change the fact that you are just wrong. And others have pointed it out in the pool context as well. But perhaps you know more than them - as well as the world of 3c players.

Just admit you overstated your case based on your lack of familiarity with the way some other people play.

What is it with this right and wrong stuff with you? How about you do what's right for you, and I'll do what's right for me. Sound ok to you?

BC21 · Dec 16, 2019

Honestly, never thought twice about it. I shoot exactly the same (as far as the bridge hand is concerned) regardless of shaft taper, shooting some shots with a closed bridge and some with an open bridge. Unless you have very bony/skeletal fingers, there's enough soft cushion or plasticity/malleability in the fingers to allow for a few millimeters of change.

A closed bridge might feel awkward if you haven't played a lot of bar pool with house wood (bar cues), but it shouldn't cause drastic or undesirable effects. I prefer the pro taper, like most people, because it feels more comfortable.

ShootingArts · Dec 16, 2019

It All Works!

All of the concerns over what happens over ten or fifteen inches don't really matter. The cue tip and cue ball are in contact for one inch more or less. Is the bridge comfortable and consistent for that inch? Add another inch for addressing the cue ball and a a little slop, so say two inches the fit between the cue and bridge matters.

Granted I haven't measured every shaft out there but in my experience there is pro taper, a very slight rise for fourteen inches or more; european taper with a much faster rise than pro but still changing to a faster rise near the joint; and true conical taper which has the same taper from tip to buttcap. I know that some consider the conical taper and european taper to be the same, I don't. There are a million other variations out there too. A pro taper generally grows one-half mm to one mm per foot. Some then go into a single arc to change taper, some go into a compound or polyconic arc, and each person's version is different. I found that the polyconic arc carried a little weight forward and made the shaft much stiffer.

When experimenting to find "my" taper, I turned a lot of shafts. I turned one that was a true cylinder for sixteen inches, what many think a pro taper is. Snapped that puppy in half in the pool room before throwing it in the trash, worst shaft I ever tried! It flexed almost entirely where the cylinder ended and the taper begin, behind my bridge hand. A foul foul playing shaft!

My mentor said shoot with a closed bridge so for years I did. Every taper available, didn't matter. It worked just fine. I made sure the bridge snugged up about the time I hit the cue ball or a little before.

Anyone thinking that there is one best bridge or one best taper is probably mistaken. If I had my cue lathe set up I would kind of like to turn a shaft with four to six inches of fast taper near the tip transitioning into something resembling a pro taper for the section that my bridge usually rides on and then into the polyconic arc I use. Probably wouldn't work but it would seem to give the benefits of both an european and a pro taper.

Try to make any definitive statements about what a pool cue and bridge has to be and there will be great players that do just fine ignoring "what has to be".

Hu

KissedOut · Dec 16, 2019

Agent 99 said:
What is it with this right and wrong stuff with you? How about you do what's right for you, and I'll do what's right for me. Sound ok to you?

Fine. Then maybe you should eschew making absolute statements about things you know nothing about. You are the one that said that if you use a conical taper you have to commit to using an open bridge.

PoolBoy1 · Dec 16, 2019

Maybe if one uses a long bridge. I use a conical with a short bridge, no problem and I don't buy into the new sciences anyway.But glad manufacturers are doing well with home equipment.

Ghosst · Dec 16, 2019

Agent 99 said:
It has nothing to do with 'psychological feel.' It has to do with dimensions and basic physics. A conical shaft has a constant taper, meaning that it is never the same diameter anywhere on the shaft. So, if you use a closed bridge, your bridge will always be too lose or too tight as you stroke back and forth. If you want to use a conical shaft you have to commit to using an open bridge all the time.

Why don't you show us a picture of your closed bridge so we can see what you see.

garczar · Dec 16, 2019

Ghosst said:
Why don't you show us a picture of your closed bridge so we can see what you see.

C'mon man, don't encourage this guy.

CESSNA10 · Dec 16, 2019

deanoc said:
garczar says schons have a pro taper

I didn't even know that, they seem to play stiffer than
what I thought was pro taper

All this proves is that I don't know much

I do know I play good with South West,Schons, Vigus,and the Deano that John nemic made

and I had trouble with

Szamboti,Meucci,Scruggs even though I was friends with Tim and Barry and wanted to
play their cues

I really don't know why

I have played with a wide variety of cues over the last 40 years from adam, pechauer,
to predator and many more. Somehow I always end up coming back to Meucci. I don't know if its mental or physical but I just seem to play better with Meucci.

JoeyInCali · Dec 16, 2019

Some people can play with it, but the fact is most don't prefer that kind of taper.
These days, most people prefer a gradual taper to the middle of the shaft .
A 2mm taper or .080" to the middle of the shaft these days is considered a stiff taper .
A 3mm taper to the middle would be closer to a conical taper.
And most pool players these days just do not like it .
Some can play with the Pred Z3 shaft ( 11.85 mm tip and conical taper ) but most pool players today do not like that taper .

Agent 99 · Dec 16, 2019

KissedOut said:
Fine. Then maybe you should eschew making absolute statements about things you know nothing about. You are the one that said that if you use a conical taper you have to commit to using an open bridge.

Ok, I get it. You are an angry dude. Your idea of having a conversation is to have an argument, where you are right and someone else is wrong. How old are you, like 16?
Again, I could not care less what you think, say or how you play pool. It's people like you who bring this forum down with your hostility and anger. So good luck with your ugly and un-civil attitude. I am sure it will take you far in life.

CESSNA10 · Dec 17, 2019

Agent 99 said:
Ok, I get it. You are an angry dude. Your idea of having a conversation is to have an argument, where you are right and someone else is wrong. How old are you, like 16?
Again, I could not care less what you think, say or how you play pool. It's people like you who bring this forum down with your hostility and anger. So good luck with your ugly and un-civil attitude. I am sure it will take you far in life.

Its the same on all forums. Over on the corvette forum there are people who say its white if you say its black, its ugly if you say its beautiful, or its slow if you say its fast. Always an argument

greyghost · Jan 11, 2020

ShootingArts said:
All of the concerns over what happens over ten or fifteen inches don't really matter. The cue tip and cue ball are in contact for one inch more or less. Is the bridge comfortable and consistent for that inch? Add another inch for addressing the cue ball and a a little slop, so say two inches the fit between the cue and bridge matters.

Granted I haven't measured every shaft out there but in my experience there is pro taper, a very slight rise for fourteen inches or more; european taper with a much faster rise than pro but still changing to a faster rise near the joint; and true conical taper which has the same taper from tip to buttcap. I know that some consider the conical taper and european taper to be the same, I don't. There are a million other variations out there too. A pro taper generally grows one-half mm to one mm per foot. Some then go into a single arc to change taper, some go into a compound or polyconic arc, and each person's version is different. I found that the polyconic arc carried a little weight forward and made the shaft much stiffer.

When experimenting to find "my" taper, I turned a lot of shafts. I turned one that was a true cylinder for sixteen inches, what many think a pro taper is. Snapped that puppy in half in the pool room before throwing it in the trash, worst shaft I ever tried! It flexed almost entirely where the cylinder ended and the taper begin, behind my bridge hand. A foul foul playing shaft!

My mentor said shoot with a closed bridge so for years I did. Every taper available, didn't matter. It worked just fine. I made sure the bridge snugged up about the time I hit the cue ball or a little before.

Anyone thinking that there is one best bridge or one best taper is probably mistaken. If I had my cue lathe set up I would kind of like to turn a shaft with four to six inches of fast taper near the tip transitioning into something resembling a pro taper for the section that my bridge usually rides on and then into the polyconic arc I use. Probably wouldn't work but it would seem to give the benefits of both an european and a pro taper.

Try to make any definitive statements about what a pool cue and bridge has to be and there will be great players that do just fine ignoring "what has to be".

Hu

like you said....add this ...shorten the shaft, move up joint and match joint size in your taper...itll be in the 700s, lengthen the butt and do what you did with the front half of the shaft...repeat it to the butts butt. Phenolic or wood/wood joint. itll spine up and play high toned.

conical taper and a closed bridge

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