Vision And Tiredness

Pidge · Feb 6, 2015

I've noticed, or rather a friend noticed and made me aware of the fact I shift my head placement on the cue when tired. I have it under my vision centre when tired which is fairly central on my chin but a smidge to the left towards my dominant left eye. When tired it shifts and becomes perfectly central and my head becomes almost perfectly square to the shot.

I play worse when I'm tired, but not because I miss pots because of poor sighting or unintentional side spin. Its always because of poor positional play because of lapses in concentration and loss of focus. So, to me its clear I'm cueing the ball well still when I'm tired. What causes my vision centre to apparently shift when tired?

ENGLISH! · Feb 6, 2015

Pidge said:
I've noticed, or rather a friend noticed and made me aware of the fact I shift my head placement on the cue when tired. I have it under my vision centre when tired which is fairly central on my chin but a smidge to the left towards my dominant left eye. When tired it shifts and becomes perfectly central and my head becomes almost perfectly square to the shot.

I play worse when I'm tired, but not because I miss pots because of poor sighting or unintentional side spin. Its always because of poor positional play because of lapses in concentration and loss of focus. So, to me its clear I'm cueing the ball well still when I'm tired. What causes my vision centre to apparently shift when tired?

I'm very interested in this as at 61, I'm starting to notice related issues.

Best,
Rick

Cardigan Kid · Feb 6, 2015

Pidge said:
I've noticed, or rather a friend noticed and made me aware of the fact I shift my head placement on the cue when tired. I have it under my vision centre when tired which is fairly central on my chin but a smidge to the left towards my dominant left eye. When tired it shifts and becomes perfectly central and my head becomes almost perfectly square to the shot.

I play worse when I'm tired, but not because I miss pots because of poor sighting or unintentional side spin. Its always because of poor positional play because of lapses in concentration and loss of focus. So, to me its clear I'm cueing the ball well still when I'm tired. What causes my vision centre to apparently shift when tired?

I noticed this about myself during long training sessions. my fundamentals are still intact but my muscle acuity or performance is not ideal. My neck feels tight, or my shoulders feel stiff. This leads to vision centre out of line and myself concentrating on my pre shot routine checklist and not on strategy and performance.

Eventually I am resigned to the "just make the ball" mentality.

I have to take a break, and stretch, and maybe a little cold water on the face to reset the system.

That's my way of dealing with it.

ENGLISH! · Feb 6, 2015

Cardigan Kid said:
I noticed this about myself during long training sessions. my fundamentals are still intact but my muscle acuity or performance is not ideal. My neck feels tight, or my shoulders feel stiff. This leads to vision centre out of line and myself concentrating on my pre shot routine checklist and not on strategy and performance.

Eventually I am resigned to the "just make the ball" mentality.

I have to take a break, and stretch, and maybe a little cold water on the face to reset the system.

That's my way of dealing with it.

Jackie Gleason went to the restroom to wash his face & hands, comb his hair & put a carnation in his lapel.:wink:

I'm probably wrong about something there.

NitPicker · Feb 6, 2015

Aside from all the obvious impacts to ones eyes and vision when they are tired, there is also your will power. It's like a muscle in that the more it's exercised, the stronger it gets, but it also grows fatigued after prolonged use. Being tired will cause lapse in concentration, in addition to physical strain of your eyes looking for lines, angles and edges.

The fix: Learn to shoot with your eyes closed. lol

MiscueBlues · Feb 6, 2015

Pidge said:
I've noticed, or rather a friend noticed and made me aware of the fact I shift my head placement on the cue when tired. I have it under my vision centre when tired which is fairly central on my chin but a smidge to the left towards my dominant left eye. When tired it shifts and becomes perfectly central and my head becomes almost perfectly square to the shot.

I play worse when I'm tired, but not because I miss pots because of poor sighting or unintentional side spin. Its always because of poor positional play because of lapses in concentration and loss of focus. So, to me its clear I'm cueing the ball well still when I'm tired. What causes my vision centre to apparently shift when tired?

I have similar problems when I shoot tired. My concentration and focus start to slip and the result is I get down on the shot "lazy" without my perfect alignment and consequently make mistakes.

Takes a great deal of effort to overcome it... All I can do is keep practicing the fundamentals of getting down on the shot until my tired and lazy setup is closer to the ideal.

Pidge · Feb 6, 2015

Thanks for the replies. My question is, can a persons vision centre shift due to tiredness? Mine seems to do just this. If I have the cue touching my normal part of the chin when tired I put unintentional side spin on the cue ball. If I shift my cue over to a 'tired vision centre' then I cue the ball perfectly. Or as near perfect as I'm capable of.

My fundamentals are ingrained into me. Everything remains the same alignment wise but it just seems my vision centre changes when tired. If anyone could explain why I 'see' better with the cue in a different place under my eyes when tired it would really help me understand my game a little more.

ctyhntr · Feb 6, 2015

There are many causes, and without seeing a doctor such as an Optometrist, or in my case Ophthalmologist, then you may not really know.

I have high myopia (-11>), moderate astigmatism, and now developing cataracts. Due to a retina detachment in my 30's, I also have to keep an eye out for thinning retina, and macular degeneration.

As we age, the lens in our eyes harden and don't have the dynamic range to focus as when we were young. For the photographers out there, imagine at age 20 you have lenses capable of 20 diopters, and by 55 it's down to 6. That's why some of us can get away with just reading glasses, and others may need bi-focals and tri-focals.

If you had lasik when you were young, you may need a touch-up when you reach middle age. If you're approaching middle age when you do lasik, doctors will recommend monovision in one eye.

If you don't know if you're near sighted, far sighted, or have astimagtism then you should see an eye doctor.

Cataracts is another leading cause of vision loss. Its as if looking through a window, and parts are cloudy/hazy, while other parts are clear.

cookie man · Feb 6, 2015

Most road players will try to play later in the evening. They've been napping all day and the opponent has been up all day anticipating the match up, or working. Huge advantage to road player. It's also something you need to control when playing in a multi day tournament. Rest is paramount. I feel myself drinking more coffee so as to be more awake, don't like red bull.

Pidge · Feb 6, 2015

ctyhntr said:
There are many causes, and without seeing a doctor such as an Optometrist, or in my case Ophthalmologist, then you may not really know.

I have high myopia (-11>), moderate astigmatism, and now developing cataracts. Due to a retina detachment in my 30's, I also have to keep an eye out for thinning retina, and macular degeneration.

As we age, the lens in our eyes harden and don't have the dynamic range to focus as when we were young. For the photographers out there, imagine at age 20 you have lenses capable of 20 diopters, and by 55 it's down to 6. That's why some of us can get away with just reading glasses, and others may need bi-focals and tri-focals.

If you had lasik when you were young, you may need a touch-up when you reach middle age. If you're approaching middle age when you do lasik, doctors will recommend monovision in one eye.

If you don't know if you're near sighted, far sighted, or have astimagtism then you should see an eye doctor.

Cataracts is another leading cause of vision loss. Its as if looking through a window, and parts are cloudy/hazy, while other parts are clear.

I'm 26, never needed any vision aids such as reading glasses, can see at a distance clearly and at short range also. I personally don't think its anything to do with my eyesight as such ie my eyes going bad or anything.

From what I know about vision (which is limited to say the least), the dominant eye sends 'focus' signals to the brain so the dominant eye is what is used to focus in specific targets such as centre cue ball and straight lines at the pool table. As I get tired, my less dominant eye which isn't as tired because it hasn't had to focus in on things so much now takes more control than normal. My cue is perfectly situated between both eyes when tired very much like a player with no dominant eye or a player with a very weak dominant eye. Its intriguing me more than anything.

*I may be way wayyyy off with the previous paragraph fyi!

theUBC · Feb 6, 2015

Imho there is only one reason for this:
You are a player with a cross dominant eye (righty/left eye is dominant) normally you have your head slightly tilted and although you normally cue under the center of your chin the cue is at the same time located under (or very close to under) your dominant eye due to your tilted head (watch your eye/cue position in a mirror in the set position or ask a friend of yours to make a photo)
You said that your head is more square over your cue when you are tired. This leads to a different position of your dominant eye in relation to the cue because you will still cue under the center of your chin. Like this the perception of the shot at hand changes and you don't get what you see because in reality the real point is slightly left to the point that you are aiming at.
In most cases an experienced player like you will nevertheless be able to pot 90% of all shots with exception of a few shots with a long long distance or at very firm speed as you will often use a little side spin on eather side anyway. So it jjust slightly more or slightly less side spin than wanted-you still pot the OB but will overrun position on cut shots to the right and slightly run short on position by cutting the OB to the left because the cue gets unwanted check side. The unwanted left side though will often be canceld out by your wrong perception when using no spin.

Why you change your head position might have multiple reasons but it is absolutely logical that you have to cue more under the left part of your chin to get the same perception with your dominant eye as when having your head slightly tilted to the right.
All the best my friend!
Ekkes

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pidge · Feb 6, 2015

theUBC said:
Imho there is only one reason for this:
You are a player with a cross dominant eye (righty/left eye is dominant) normally you have your head slightly tilted and although you normally cue under the center of your chin the cue is at the same time located under (or very close to under) your dominant eye due to your tilted head (watch your eye/cue position in a mirror in the set position or ask a friend of yours to make a photo)
You said that your head is more square over your cue when you are tired. This leads to a different position of your dominant eye in relation to the cue because you will still cue under the center of your chin. Like this the perception of the shot at hand changes and you don't get what you see because in reality the real point is slightly left to the point that you are aiming at.
In most cases an experienced player like you will nevertheless be able to pot 90% of all shots with exception of a few shots with a long long distance or at very firm speed as you will often use a little side spin on eather side anyway. So it jjust slightly more or slightly less side spin than wanted-you still pot the OB but will overrun position on cut shots to the right and slightly run short on position by cutting the OB to the left because the cue gets unwanted check side. The unwanted left side though will often be canceld out by your wrong perception when using no spin.

Why you change your head position might have multiple reasons but it is absolutely logical that you have to cue more under the left part of your chin to get the same perception with your dominant eye as when having your head slightly tilted to the right.
All the best my friend!
Ekkes

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ekkes, I really do have to make a trip to see you at some point in the future. Your knowledge and teaching abilities always amazes me. Thanks very much for your thoughts.

theUBC · Feb 6, 2015

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

theUBC · Feb 6, 2015

Thanks- hope it clears things up...
Apart from this I can only say that YOU have created the most useful posts within the last months regarding basics of pool.
If only 10 % of all forum members would take the time to create these kind of posts where others can really learn and benefit instead of insulting each other - than this forum would be an even better place!
Keep up that attitude! Thumb up!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PoolBoy1 · Feb 6, 2015

there are eye exercises that work very well. Just search them. Make sure body and nutrition in in form.

Bob Jewett · Feb 6, 2015

Pidge said:
.... What causes my vision centre to apparently shift when tired?

In previous discussions of eye dominance, I think studies/experiences were mentioned in which the dominant eye changes especially when fatigued. I doubt that anyone has figured out the physiological reason. Are you hoping to prevent the shift? Or just curious about what is going on?

ENGLISH! · Feb 6, 2015

theUBC said:
Imho there is only one reason for this:
You are a player with a cross dominant eye (righty/left eye is dominant) normally you have your head slightly tilted and although you normally cue under the center of your chin the cue is at the same time located under (or very close to under) your dominant eye due to your tilted head (watch your eye/cue position in a mirror in the set position or ask a friend of yours to make a photo)
You said that your head is more square over your cue when you are tired. This leads to a different position of your dominant eye in relation to the cue because you will still cue under the center of your chin. Like this the perception of the shot at hand changes and you don't get what you see because in reality the real point is slightly left to the point that you are aiming at.
In most cases an experienced player like you will nevertheless be able to pot 90% of all shots with exception of a few shots with a long long distance or at very firm speed as you will often use a little side spin on eather side anyway. So it jjust slightly more or slightly less side spin than wanted-you still pot the OB but will overrun position on cut shots to the right and slightly run short on position by cutting the OB to the left because the cue gets unwanted check side. The unwanted left side though will often be canceld out by your wrong perception when using no spin.

Why you change your head position might have multiple reasons but it is absolutely logical that you have to cue more under the left part of your chin to get the same perception with your dominant eye as when having your head slightly tilted to the right.
All the best my friend!
Ekkes

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Excellent post. I just found out through Gene Albrecht that, for pool, I am cross dominant. I'm amazed at how well I've played 'knowing' that I was right eye dominant for more than 4+ decades.

Again, excellent post.

How are you doing? My Wife is now recovering from a knee replacement & will be going through rehab.

When is the new DVD coming out & will there be a 'tease' as to what it involves?

Best 2 You & Yours, Stay Well...& Shoot Well,
Rick

ENGLISH! · Feb 6, 2015

theUBC said:
Thanks- hope it clears things up...
Apart from this I can only say that YOU have created the most useful posts within the last months regarding basics of pool.
If only 10 % of all forum members would take the time to create these kind of posts where others can really learn and benefit instead of insulting each other - than this forum would be an even better place!
Keep up that attitude! Thumb up!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:thumbup2: :thumbup2: :thumbup2:

Pidge · Feb 6, 2015

Bob Jewett said:
In previous discussions of eye dominance, I think studies/experiences were mentioned in which the dominant eye changes especially when fatigued. I doubt that anyone has figured out the physiological reason. Are you hoping to prevent the shift? Or just curious about what is going on?

Just really curious. I doubt I can prevent it.

theUBC · Feb 7, 2015

@English
Thanks pal.
Feeling better from day to day.
I aim to finish the videos and written material within 4 weeks after getting home- keep up good shooting!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vision And Tiredness

AzB Silver Member

Banned

AzB Silver Member

Banned

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

RIP Kelly

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AZB Osmium Member

Banned

Banned

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member