USA Mosconi Team

I sure hope you’re correct in your assessment, but don’t share your optimism. If the American players all moved to Europe, only Shane would be ranked in the top 10 on the Eurotour.

I think that either team you propose would be hard pressed to win more than six matches.

sjm said:

I sure hope you’re correct in your assessment, but don’t share your optimism. If the American players all moved to Europe, only Shane would be ranked in the top 10 on the Eurotour.

I think that either team you propose would be hard pressed to win more than six matches.

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Hey, you never know...didn't the Lions just beat the Patriots?

sjm said:

I sure hope you’re correct in your assessment, but don’t share your optimism. If the American players all moved to Europe, only Shane & Corey Deuel would be ranked in the top 10 on the Eurotour.

I think that either team you propose would be hard pressed to win more than six matches.

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I adjusted that a little for you.. :thumbup:

SVB
Skyler
Bergman
Billy
Duel

Morris, Hatch, and Oscar as alternates

sjm said:

. If the American players all moved to Europe, only Shane would be ranked in the top 10 on the Eurotour.

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I think having 3 who finished in the top 8 including the winner in their only ET attempt argues strongly against that. Not to mention, we didn't have Hatch, Bergman, DeChaine,. Rodney etc there either. SVB would be in the top 2 and
just out of Dechaine, Sky and Bergman -at least 2 of them would make the top 10 imo.

Im not picking us to win the MC but it shouldn't be embarrassing like the last few years. If SVB has broken the MC curse, we could get within 3 matches imo.

I don't think one eurotour event says alot about anything and It certainly isn't a few of these players first outing. That said, hoping for a close Mosconi this year. Takes the fun out of watching live when you can't buy tickets beyond the third day without risking disappointment

mark187187 said:

I don't think one eurotour event says alot about anything and It certainly isn't a few of these players first outing. That said, hoping for a close Mosconi this year. Takes the fun out of watching live when you can't buy tickets beyond the third day without risking disappointment

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I think it says something. I believe it was the first outing on the ET for most of them. Who do you have playing the ET previously? Regardless, they were under great pressure at the Leende event-All eyes on them and collective wishing of failure, yet they stood up great. With more ET experience, all of history says they would only get better.

coco9 said:

After USA performing better than expected at the recent Euro Tour I am hopeful of at least a competitive (closer ran) Mosconi Cup this year. The walkovers the last few years have not made great viewing.

USA need to pick players that are not going to be impacted too much by the occasion.

Who should they pick from the list of available players and who should they have picked had they still had the choice of everyone and what would the score between these 2 sides be?

My thoughts:

Players available Team (in this order):

SVB
Woodward
Deuel
Ellerman
Thorpe

I think the final place is a coin toss and you can throw in McMinn and Oscar

Any USA Player (in this order)

SVB
Bergman
Woodward
Archer
Hatch

I think the second team wins 11-8

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I was there for the Leende Eurotour event through Saturday night, and here are my thoughts:

Skylar and Billy were the best two players under SVB, and it's not even close. While Ellerman and McMinn held up well under pressure, Skylar and Billy were simply murdering people. Their level of execution is superior to every one of the US contingent there in Leende besides Shane.

Deuel looked a bit nervous out there, but he is still the same uber-smart player he's always been, and held up well under pressure. He's a good enough choice if we can't get Bergman, I guess.

I would pick McMinn over Ellerman, if it came down to it. McMinn's game really surprised me. He did not look out of sorts against anyone he played, and he never looked even close to collasping under the pressure. He stood up well to some shenanigans by Denis Grabe where Denis tried to get in McMinn's head by saying Shane was leaving intentional gaps in the rack.

All that being said, based on what i saw in Leende and my knowledge of the U.S. pool players/attitudes, and whatnot:

SVB
Bergman
Skylar
Thorpe
Deuel

If Bergman will not be allowed to play, I would toss in McMinn.

BUT... I gotta throw in something here, and be brutally honest for a second. The Mosconi Cup is a made-for-TV deal, and McMinn has gained a LOT of weight recently. So much so that I am not sure I'd be all that comfortable with him representing the U.S.. He's at the point where his weight makes pretty much any outfit look bad on him, shirt coming untucked regularly over a match, etc. And he doesn't have time to drop much weight before the Mosconi Cup.

If I were the coach and Bergman is not an option, I'd put Ellerman and McMinn in the box together and have them play for the spot. And I'd hope that Ellerman could bring the game to win the spot. Heck, if it came down to it, I'd give a coach's pick to Hatch if he could attend, over McMinn.

I know it's not nice to say, and I feel bad about it, because McMinn played VERY well in Leende, but you really have to be prepared to represent your country if you want to play on the Mosconi Cup team, and McMinn hasn't taken that task to heart in the past 6 months, obviously.

ShortBusRuss said:

I was there for the Leende Eurotour event through Saturday night, and here are my thoughts:

Skylar and Billy were the best two players under SVB, and it's not even close. While Ellerman and McMinn held up well under pressure, Skylar and Billy were simply murdering people. Their level of execution is superior to every one of the US contingent there in Leende besides Shane.

Deuel looked a bit nervous out there, but he is still the same uber-smart player he's always been, and held up well under pressure. He's a good enough choice if we can't get Bergman, I guess.

I would pick McMinn over Ellerman, if it came down to it. McMinn's game really surprised me. He did not look out of sorts against anyone he played, and he never looked even close to collasping under the pressure. He stood up well to some shenanigans by Denis Grabe where Denis tried to get in McMinn's head by saying Shane was leaving intentional gaps in the rack.

All that being said, based on what i saw in Leende and my knowledge of the U.S. pool players/attitudes, and whatnot:

SVB
Bergman
Skylar
Thorpe
Deuel

If Bergman will not be allowed to play, I would toss in McMinn.

BUT... I gotta throw in something here, and be brutally honest for a second. The Mosconi Cup is a made-for-TV deal, and McMinn has gained a LOT of weight recently. So much so that I am not sure I'd be all that comfortable with him representing the U.S.. He's at the point where his weight makes pretty much any outfit look bad on him, shirt coming untucked regularly over a match, etc. And he doesn't have time to drop much weight before the Mosconi Cup.

If I were the coach and Bergman is not an option, I'd put Ellerman and McMinn in the box together and have them play for the spot. And I'd hope that Ellerman could bring the game to win the spot. Heck, if it came down to it, I'd give a coach's pick to Hatch if he could attend, over McMinn.

I know it's not nice to say, and I feel bad about it, because McMinn played VERY well in Leende, but you really have to be prepared to represent your country if you want to play on the Mosconi Cup team, and McMinn hasn't taken that task to heart in the past 6 months, obviously.

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This ought to be good...

easy-e said:

This ought to be good...

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It is what it is. We all know these players have the heart of champions, and ought to be able to control their weight a bit better than your average bear.

I wouldn't even mention it, but we are talking about performing at the peak of one's ability in order to represent one's country, and also to represent one's country visually on television.

I live over on Europe, remember. And there is already a certain (justified) preconception the Europeans have of Americans as being generally, MUCH more overweight that Europeans as a whole.

I think that the European fans can be a bit crude as it is, without giving them more ammunition.

Did'nt see any of the play but did Shane (McMinn) play while wearing a ballcap? Idon't think ive ever seen him play without one. That could be a hinderence as well getting used to playing without.

decent dennis said:

Did'nt see any of the play but did Shane (McMinn) play while wearing a ballcap? Idon't think ive ever seen him play without one. That could be a hinderence as well getting used to playing without.

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Shane almost looks like a different person without the Ball Cap

Just saw McMinn in Houston...

ShortBusRuss said:

I was there for the Leende Eurotour event through Saturday night, and here are my thoughts:

Skylar and Billy were the best two players under SVB, and it's not even close. While Ellerman and McMinn held up well under pressure, Skylar and Billy were simply murdering people. Their level of execution is superior to every one of the US contingent there in Leende besides Shane.

Deuel looked a bit nervous out there, but he is still the same uber-smart player he's always been, and held up well under pressure. He's a good enough choice if we can't get Bergman, I guess.

I would pick McMinn over Ellerman, if it came down to it. McMinn's game really surprised me. He did not look out of sorts against anyone he played, and he never looked even close to collasping under the pressure. He stood up well to some shenanigans by Denis Grabe where Denis tried to get in McMinn's head by saying Shane was leaving intentional gaps in the rack.

All that being said, based on what i saw in Leende and my knowledge of the U.S. pool players/attitudes, and whatnot:

SVB
Bergman
Skylar
Thorpe
Deuel

If Bergman will not be allowed to play, I would toss in McMinn.

BUT... I gotta throw in something here, and be brutally honest for a second. The Mosconi Cup is a made-for-TV deal, and McMinn has gained a LOT of weight recently. So much so that I am not sure I'd be all that comfortable with him representing the U.S.. He's at the point where his weight makes pretty much any outfit look bad on him, shirt coming untucked regularly over a match, etc. And he doesn't have time to drop much weight before the Mosconi Cup.

If I were the coach and Bergman is not an option, I'd put Ellerman and McMinn in the box together and have them play for the spot. And I'd hope that Ellerman could bring the game to win the spot. Heck, if it came down to it, I'd give a coach's pick to Hatch if he could attend, over McMinn.

I know it's not nice to say, and I feel bad about it, because McMinn played VERY well in Leende, but you really have to be prepared to represent your country if you want to play on the Mosconi Cup team, and McMinn hasn't taken that task to heart in the past 6 months, obviously.

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Several years ago I was in OKC a lot and played Shane in a couple of Jamaica Joe's tourneys. I just saw him at bogie's in Houston and almost couldn't recognize him.

I doubt weight should have any bearing on him representing the US though and playing with or without a hat on is a frickin joke. Makes zero difference.

Jaden

sjm said:

I sure hope you’re correct in your assessment, but don’t share your optimism. If the American players all moved to Europe, only Shane would be ranked in the top 10 on the Eurotour.

I think that either team you propose would be hard pressed to win more than six matches.

Click to expand...

Totally agree here. I don't see any help for Team USA now or in the near future. This could be another embarrassing year for us in the MC. I'm not sure how much this trip to Europe will help either. My suggestion now would be to take the team to England a week ahead of time and keep them off the table for the first three days, and let them sight see around London.

I'd want them to be hungry to hit balls before letting them practice. Don't let them stay in the practice room for hours either. Keep them hungry and limit their playing time. I don't care if they are confused or upset. Tell them if they aren't already prepared to play, it's too late now. Make them a little bit angry. They need somehow to get shook up and stirred up.

I know this all sounds crazy to most of you, but that's my best assessment of what might make a difference in their performance. If you can get them to focus when playing their matches (and forget about the pressure), that could be enough to grab a few wins early on, which is what they desperately need.

Like Stu, I doubt any of this will happen and we'll see another blow out, maybe 11-4 or ?

jay helfert said:

Totally agree here. I don't see any help for Team USA now or in the near future. This could be another embarrassing year for us in the MC. I'm not sure how much this trip to Europe will help either. My suggestion now would be to take the team to England a week ahead of time and keep them off the table for the first three days, and let them sight see around London.

I'd want them to be hungry to hit balls before letting them practice. Don't let them stay in the practice room for hours either. Keep them hungry and limit their playing time. I don't care if they are confused. Tell them if they aren't already prepared to play, it's too late now. Make them a little bit angry. They need somehow to get shook up and stirred up.

I know this all sounds crazy to most of you, but that's my best assessment of what might make a difference in their performance. If you can get them to focus when playing their matches (and forget about the pressure), that could be enough to grab a few wins early on, which is what they desperately need.

Like Stu, I doubt any of this will happen and we'll see another blow out, maybe 11-4 or ?

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How could you not agree with someone who has their thumb on the pulse of pool for as long as Stu? Yes you can shuffle the deck many times and not come up with a winning team for USA. I like your strategy Jay but at the end of the day the odds are stacked against us and the fact that we are in the Euro's back yard certainly does not help.

IMHO the trip overseas for our boys has not hurt them, in fact I think it will help immensely but like most things we try in this game it will take time.

Short races>>work on the lag Muchacho's

Cuebuddy said:

... Short races>>work on the lag Muchacho's

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Lags won-lost, matches won-lost by Team USA in the Mosconi Cup:

2017 -- 4-11, 4-11
2016 -- 8-6, 3-11
2015 -- 9-9, 7-11
2014 -- 2-14, 5-11
2013 -- 4-9, 2-11

5-year totals -- 27-49, 21-55

[In the ABN Dream Challenge with Russia earlier this month -- lags 11-6, matches 9-8]

The truth is that we might win, but to predict victory begs the question "Have we filled in the gaps in both shot conceptualization and shot execution between Team USA and Team Europe that have resulted in eight losses in a row?"

First, we can dispel some myths that are so frequently proposed right here on AZB:

Myth 1. The Mosconi is a Crapshoot
Unfortunately for fans of Team USA, the Mosconi is no crapshoot, but instead a very long match in which a far weaker team will always have a hard time of winning eleven matches before its opponent.

Myth 2: Mosconi results are cyclical, Europe is just on a run
The Mosconi results are not cyclical, with Europe being on what must be presumed a temporary run of success. In the first dozen years of the Mosconi, before the meteoric rise of nine ball in Europe, the US always showed up with the stronger team, and nearly always won. The path to victory has little to do with the length of the races, the number of matches, getting used to the equipment, or other peripheral matters. Winning is about showing up with the team that makes better choices than its opponents and outperforms their opponents in execution of the shots designed.

Myth 3: The "bootcamp" idea proposed for 2018 was outrageous
Quite the contrary. Matchroom and/or Johan found a vehicle by which American players might develop better decision making skills and better shot execution skills through a "boot camp" type of preparation. It was a very good idea that met with the kind of resistance that evidences that either a) American players live in denial over the size of the gap between them and their European counterparts, or b) American players are simply unwilling to put in the time it takes to bridge the gap. As we've seen for years, left to their lonesome, they haven't been able to accomplish this. Yes, I do understand there is a money issue, but Europeans have been making large investments in themselves and in their games and careers by traveling the world to train and compete --- rarely so for Americans.

... so here's where things stand
We might win, because it's possible to outbreak them or get the better of the luck at a few key junctures, but those are tough paths to victory. America has failed of late to develop young well-rounded players (Bergman and Thorpe are the most obvious exceptions of late) and it's this that must change, for at the Mosconi, you have to show a really complete set of skills to be successful.

I was discussing pool with some buddies yesterday and meanwhile we also talked about MC, the difference between pool in the US and Europe.
One of my friend had an interesting point by saying that he always has the feeling that the US players always play for the highlight clip and the Europeans play for the unspectacular win.

And if you think about it, you seldomly see players like Souquet, Feijen or Albin coming up with this mega shots, while you could make hours and hours of videos with Earl, Shane, Deuel and other Americans playing one exceptional shot after another.

There might be some exceptions on both sides, like Shaw or Melling, who are always in for some candy shots, but overall I think there is at least a grain of truth in this claim.

For example I for myself really enjoy watching Frost or Chohan playing one pocket, because they have so much knowledge and play the craziest shots...and I´m always baffled if they fail to run out 4 or 5 open balls.

The point is, if my life would rely on someone making a high speed bank shot an ultra fine cut or some sort of jump-kick-combination-fullside to get position-shot, I would gladly choose one of the US squad.
If it would rely on just cleanly running a rack, I would put my life in the hands of one of the Europeans every time.

Anyone have any stats on matches this year between USA vs EUROPE potential teams? Do we have anyone with wins over EUROPE'S players besides SVB?