Super Billiards Ban from Playing!

ga9ball · Mar 16, 2014

Super Billiards Amateur Open!

I payed my entry into the Senior Amateur at the Expo in Edison New Jersey.
My entry was accepted by Allen Hopkins, and I was posted on the bracket board!
I booked a Hotel room at the Sheraton down the road with my Family, and was ready to play.
I spoke with Allen Hopkins personally on 3/13/14 at the Expo, thanking him for his constant support of the game of pool which is a significant part of my life.
Nothing was ever mentioned to me by Allen of what would transpire 24 hours later.

My 2 Son's as well as some friends were there to watch, at considerable expense. We were all excited for some good pool.
I arrived for the Players meeting on Friday morning, and saw that I played at 11:00 am on the bracket sheet. After the meeting I went up to the Tournament desk to tell the staff that I forgot my badge in my Hotel, and could I use my Exhibitor badge as identification? I was told that would be fine, and as I started to walk to my match in 5 minutes, the staff asked if l would come around to the back of the booth!
I thought it a bit strange, but I was thinking they wanted to give me another badge. To my astonishment, I was told that SOME PEOPLE had made complaints saying that I was " Too Good " to play in this event, and should be considered a " Professional "

The staff member said I was disqualified from the Tournament! To say the least I was upset, and the Staff member proceeded to tell me to wait to speak to his boss. I waited there, and then was told by another Staff member that because I had cashed in a Joss tour event in Turning Stone, that that criteria made me ineligible.
If this is the case, then why was my money ever even accepted?
Also how does a regional event compare with other events like the:

2013 Super Billiards Expo Diamond Open 10-Ball Pro Players Championship

2013 US Open 9-Ball Championship

2014 Derby City Classic - Any Division

2013 US Open 10-Ball Championship

These Events are True Pro Caliber, where a Regional Joss Event has many local players entered who realize they have no chance of winning, but go for a good time, and support our tour!
You MAY get what is considered a desirable draw, and actually make it to the MONEY ROUNDS!

I would think the criteria needs some Common Sense adjusting to happen so that a player of my speed does not get PUNISHED for supporting his regular TOUR, and making a $550 payday!!!!!

I would not even be talking about this if I was told from the beginning that l can not play, but 5 minutes before my match, with all family and friends their to watch!
I also feel that many upon many players were allowed to play of my caliber, and possibly of even higher caliber, including prior Champions of this event.

Some players will never even play in a so called PRO event, for fear of losing this Amateur status, and losing out on other events.

Being a Professional Pool Player l would think means you earn your income from playing Pool which l certainly do not, and never have in my life!

I have known Allen Hopkins for many years, and admired him for everything he has accomplished in pool.
I remember watching him come to my area when he was 16 years old to play Billy Costello in a cash money game, and was in awe!
All that AWE and RESPECT has dwindled now!

Thanks for an expensive lesson in life, and for my Ban!

And most of all I want to thank THE SNITCH CRY BABIES who dropped the DIME. Hope you are happy with yourselves!

Best Regards,
Greg Antonakos

Blue Hog ridr · Mar 16, 2014

Did you get your money back?

If that were me, I would purposely miss the urinals every time I went for a Pee.

ga9ball · Mar 16, 2014

Ban from playing at Expo

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203387124825731&set=gm.288335971324311&type=1

Yes they refunded the $75 entry! Big Deal : (
What about all my family's expenses to be there? And to clear it up, I never WITHDREW as it says, and I told Allen to Remove that, and they put Whiteout over Withdraw!
Snitch City!

Yea, and to top it off, the next night the same Staff member comes running towards the booth l am working saying " Greg they are calling you for the Pro Am which is a $300 payed entry event which l never even entered!!! This was another ploy hoping l would play in this and possibly get lucky, that way Allen could justify banning me! Something stinks here!

Cashman · Mar 16, 2014

That's cold man.

I looked you up on AZ database. You've had some nice finishes, you obviously have some game, but how can a player with less then 10k career earnings be considered a "Pro". I've seen the same thing happen on a smaller scale in my local market, and it sucks. Guys almost don't want to improve, once you win a couple little local tourneys they don't let you to play in anything.

PoloBob · Mar 16, 2014

ga9ball said:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203387124825731&set=gm.288335971324311&type=1

Yes they refunded the $75 entry! Big Deal : (
What about all my family's expenses to be there? And to clear it up, I never WITHDREW as it says, and I told Allen to Remove that, and they put Whiteout over Withdraw!
Snitch City!

Yea, and to top it off, the next night the same Staff member comes running towards the booth l am working saying " Greg they are calling you for the Pro Am which is a $300 payed entry event which l never even entered!!! This was another ploy hoping l would play in this and possibly get lucky, that way Allen could justify banning me! Something stinks here!

That truly is unfortunate, Greg. What an unsettling experience?!

It speaks volumes regarding your character being able to remain as composed as you did.

victorl · Mar 16, 2014

That's pretty rough...

Finishing in the money in a big event should have nothing to do with your status as an amateur player. Pro tours rely on "dead money" amateur entries, but win a little something and you lose eligibility for amateur events? Ridiculous.

TCIndepMo · Mar 16, 2014

You use terms like "dropped a dime" and "snitched" . Maybe it's just a matter of semantics, but some might think those words are being used to describe someone worthy of being "snitched " upon or having the "... dime dropped... " on them, in the first place? Apparently even you feel you are good enough to be "snitched" on and/or have dimes dropped in your honor.

I have never played in that event, but does the entry form contain any wording about previous higher level play or the organizer's right to enforce any such limitation? Obviously the timing and the way it was handled sounds horrible from your version, but did the other entrants have any expectation that the organizers would keep the entrants to a certain level of expertise? A significantly lower level than your speed?

A very gray area indeed, but isn't this more like a compliment to your perceived skill, than the insult you seem to feel?

Good luck next time.

Badbeat13 · Mar 16, 2014

Greg, this was/is ####ing bullshit!!! Allen should man up and refund your entire expenses for you and your families' trip and troubles (I heard he was making a lot of money on the expo these days). Even if he did this it would still not make it right, but it would be easier to swallow.

Sorry to hear this, Jerry

naji · Mar 17, 2014

ga9ball said:
Super Billiards Amateur Open!

I payed my entry into the Senior Amateur at the Expo in Edison New Jersey.
My entry was accepted by Allen Hopkins, and I was posted on the bracket board!
I booked a Hotel room at the Sheraton down the road with my Family, and was ready to play.
I spoke with Allen Hopkins personally on 3/13/14 at the Expo, thanking him for his constant support of the game of pool which is a significant part of my life.
Nothing was ever mentioned to me by Allen of what would transpire 24 hours later.

My 2 Son's as well as some friends were there to watch, at considerable expense. We were all excited for some good pool.
I arrived for the Players meeting on Friday morning, and saw that I played at 11:00 am on the bracket sheet. After the meeting I went up to the Tournament desk to tell the staff that I forgot my badge in my Hotel, and could I use my Exhibitor badge as identification? I was told that would be fine, and as I started to walk to my match in 5 minutes, the staff asked if l would come around to the back of the booth!
I thought it a bit strange, but I was thinking they wanted to give me another badge. To my astonishment, I was told that SOME PEOPLE had made complaints saying that I was " Too Good " to play in this event, and should be considered a " Professional "

The staff member said I was disqualified from the Tournament! To say the least I was upset, and the Staff member proceeded to tell me to wait to speak to his boss. I waited there, and then was told by another Staff member that because I had cashed in a Joss tour event in Turning Stone, that that criteria made me ineligible.
If this is the case, then why was my money ever even accepted?
Also how does a regional event compare with other events like the:

2013 Super Billiards Expo Diamond Open 10-Ball Pro Players Championship

2013 US Open 9-Ball Championship

2014 Derby City Classic - Any Division

2013 US Open 10-Ball Championship

These Events are True Pro Caliber, where a Regional Joss Event has many local players entered who realize they have no chance of winning, but go for a good time, and support our tour!
You MAY get what is considered a desirable draw, and actually make it to the MONEY ROUNDS!

I would think the criteria needs some Common Sense adjusting to happen so that a player of my speed does not get PUNISHED for supporting his regular TOUR, and making a $550 payday!!!!!

I would not even be talking about this if I was told from the beginning that l can not play, but 5 minutes before my match, with all family and friends their to watch!
I also feel that many upon many players were allowed to play of my caliber, and possibly of even higher caliber, including prior Champions of this event.

Some players will never even play in a so called PRO event, for fear of losing this Amateur status, and losing out on other events.

Being a Professional Pool Player l would think means you earn your income from playing Pool which l certainly do not, and never have in my life!

I have known Allen Hopkins for many years, and admired him for everything he has accomplished in pool.
I remember watching him come to my area when he was 16 years old to play Billy Costello in a cash money game, and was in awe!
All that AWE and RESPECT has dwindled now!

Thanks for an expensive lesson in life, and for my Ban!

And most of all I want to thank THE SNITCH CRY BABIES who dropped the DIME. Hope you are happy with yourselves!

Best Regards,
Greg Antonakos

Consider yourself lucky you got to watch the pros play, no refund for this reason. Lucky you got the 75 back. Common we know you had great time.

Johnnyt · Mar 17, 2014

That really sucks. Even if you were Efern you should have been told long before you got there and in the brackets. Something just don't seem right here. Johnnyt

trob · Mar 17, 2014

One side of me doesn't have a problem with it. The other says I see guys who are pro's and shouldn't be aloud in it every year and these are guys who make there living playing pool ...allen knows they do.. and still lets them play. I won't call these people out but one is a friend of mine. He finished in the finals a few years ago. Plays nuts up against shuff and other local pro players in the pro am tournaments. It's just so damn hard in pool to know who is a pro and who isn't with no real pro tour. In my opinion if they thought you were pro caliber but neglected to tell you that before you got there they should have let you play but told you this is your last year in the amateur. The expo isn't a local tournament you drive 50 miles or less to. People may expended a lot of time and money getting there so you should be told a head of time if your not eligible.

personally I hate the tournament it self. I pay to play in it because if your going to the expo you might as well but between it being single elimination and pro caliber players being loud to play in it I don't expect to cash let alone win.

JAM · Mar 17, 2014

We love Allen Hopkins, and like you, we have had excellent interactions with him, both pool-related and socially. He's just a nice guy. We can all agree to that.

But with that said, my personal experience dealing with some -- not all -- of the staff hired by Allen Hopkins on site at the SBE has been upsetting, to say the least. They seem to have a pitbull mentality, some of them, and treat paying players and spectators like sh*t.

I can recount several instances, but it's water under the bridge now. One thing I will say is that Allen Hopkins did intercede when a couple of those pitbulls were flexing their staff muscle, and he made it all good with us, but Allen can't be everywhere and handle all the problems with an event this huge. Unfortunately, some of the SBE staff are not as amiable or nice as Allen. It's like that in all business, I guess. One staffperson does not represent the entire company, but that one staffperson who speaks to a paying player and/or spectator poorly is something one never forgets. I haven't forgotten it. And it wasn't just one staffperson; it was several.

That sucks that you paid all that money, only to be turned away to play. This SBE is so huge that Allen and his common-sense approach to handling problems can't be everywhere. He hires staff people to handle problems. Some of them are great and helpful. A similar situation happened with my other half when it came to refereeing a foul. The so-called referee wouldn't know a foul if it bit him in the ass, yet he was the one called to referee a crucial shot that was in the finals of the Pro/Am event.

You were already paid and in. They should not have turned you away.

voiceofreason · Mar 17, 2014

Is there really no structure to professional pool in the USA? Surely a player is either a professional or he is not?

Here in the UK there is a professional tour, which you can join as an amateur and if you get to a certain ranking on the tour, you are offered professional status. If you take it you are then allowed to play in the professional events and you are classed as a professional for the purposes of amateur events.

This status lasts for tow years after you resign from the professional tour - to stop sand bagging.

JAM · Mar 17, 2014

voiceofreason said:
Is there really no structure to professional pool in the USA? Surely a player is either a professional or he is not?

Here in the UK there is a professional tour, which you can join as an amateur and if you get to a certain ranking on the tour, you are offered professional status. If you take it you are then allowed to play in the professional events and you are classed as a professional for the purposes of amateur events.

This status lasts for tow years after you resign from the professional tour - to stop sand bagging.

There is no tour, no organization for pro pool. BCA used to have a list of players, but it was outdated and nobody updated it. Now BCA shuns professional pool, it seems, yet they are our representative to the WPA. Go figure!

Allen needs to hire a subject-matter expert when accepting entry fees for these tournaments next year, someone who actually knows who's who. The staff he hires probably are not familiar with players from all regions around the country, much less the world. This is something that Allen could improve upon, having the names examined BEFOREHAND, before accepting the fees. If he's going to have an amateur tournament, he needs to have competent staff running the show, meaning looking at the names BEFORE accepting the entry fees.

Handling it this way, what happened to this poor guy, was terrible, to turn him away. I would have been LIVID.

doitforthegame · Mar 17, 2014

Badbeat13 said:
Greg, this was/is ####ing bullshit!!! Allen should man up and refund your entire expenses for you and your families' trip and troubles (I heard he was making a lot of money on the expo these days). Even if he did this it would still not make it right, but it would be easier to swallow.

Sorry to hear this, Jerry

Ha-ha..... Jerry, you sound like a politician...you are pretty free with another guy's money. Hat to say it but TCindep, as cold as it sounded, was exactly dead on correct. But, that being said, Greg you did get screwed because they should have told you before.

Bob

bflojosh · Mar 17, 2014

About five years ago my buddy lost in the first round of the open saying "The guy didn't miss a ball!" Now, my buddy exaggerates a bit sometimes, but then again I've watched him run a seven pack so he can play a little.
The guy he lost to was in the pit playing $100 a game later that day. It was Manny Chou. I don't begrudge Mr. Chou one bit he's an excellant player but definitely pro level even back then.
There has to be some better definitions of "pro" and "amateur."
I'm going to get out that ol' dead horse and beat him some more...

Cracktherack · Mar 17, 2014

Greg, you do play pro-level pool. I have seen you play. Perhaps you don't see yourself as a pro level player. Maybe you're on the line...pro/amateur. I do believe Hopkins was wrong to deny you the opportunity to play after you had checked into the hotel, knowing your entry fee was paid ahead of time. The other side of the coin is this.....I have personally seen Allen and other pros like Mike Sigel and Jim Rempe and even Mizerak get into an amateur tournament to cherry pick it. They say one thing, but it never applies to them. You don't fit into this category at all.
Who's shadow has caused a level of mistrust that still darkens the men pro pool players of today? I could make a long list of pro players from Allen's era that were all cut-throat suspicious characters of their time.
Greg, I surely view you as a man of character and will always look forward to watching you play.

3andstop · Mar 17, 2014

Is there a link to the entry criteria for these events that define "Pro"?

It would seem to me that something like this is either specifically spelled out, or the organizers were out of line to a level of reasonableness that would offer you a civil case for costs.

Now, if it is spelled out specifically, it would be the players responsibility to adhere to those rules and if it were discovered that the rules of entry were broken, then it wouldn't matter if you were disqualified during a match.

Either way,the written rules or lack thereof have the answer.

ctyhntr · Mar 17, 2014

I'm only two years away from being eligible to enter into the Senior Open. I would be flattered if the SBE staff thought highly of my skills to act on complaints to refund the $75 entry fee, and at no cost to me to play in the Pro/Amateur open ($300 entry fee)

BeiberLvr · Mar 17, 2014

We might not have a pro tour to determine status, but there is a solution.

It's not perfect, but it isSIMPLE

All a tournament director has to do is look at the previous 2 year's earnings. If a player was in the top X in either year, then they are not eligible to play. So if a player was in the top X in 2012, but not in 2013. Then they can't play in 2014. But if they aren't in the top X for 2014, then they could play in 2015.

Also, if a player finishes top 3 in the amateur event, then they can't play the following year.

Super Billiards Ban from Playing!

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